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Topic: de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta) (Read 371 times)
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Reverend
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de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« on: April 15, 2005, 09:10:03 PM »
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Howdy y'all ... just found y'alls site and I have to say, I'm impressed 
I just finished the beta version of my newest map and would appreciate any and all input .
Yes, the textures are mostly de_torn textures, but it works for the motif and I have no time to design my own 
Thanks again!
Download here. (updated version below)
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| « Last Edit: April 17, 2005, 01:20:36 PM by Reverend » |
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Surgeon General
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2005, 09:38:57 PM »
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Cool.
Welcome to the club. Glad to see there are still people making 1.6 maps besides Grounded these days.
I'm downloading it now, and going to take a look. I'm sure we can get it uploaded to the server and give it a test run.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 11:06:47 PM »
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Thanks for the welcome .
Yeah, I looked at the source SDK and it's just too much to try and relearn for the time I have to dedicate to mapping.
That'd be great if y'all could test it out on the server ... I'm anxious to see how it plays out with more than 4 people.
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animal sex
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2005, 01:02:26 AM »
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Ok the map looks ok, but dont get discouraged. If you are looking for helpful input, then here it is:
MANY texture alignment/stretching problems
Some solid alignment problems (most likely the result of carving)
Hallways are wayyy too narrow
Good luck, im just trying to help here.
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 07:17:47 AM »
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Welcome  We need more mappers around here
Ok to the map. Some pics with comments:
Just a visual error which you can easily fix by shortening the bottles brush
Hard to see in the pic but the circled face is damaged and you're getting the infamous Hall of Mirrors. This often happens with complicated shapes being rotated
Massive texture stretching
Nothing essentially wrong here except visually. This wall texture is used a lot in the map - the torn wad has tons of varied textures so make use of them! The same goes for the floor texture which is used throughout the whole map - mix it up and not only will it look better it'll be easier for people to navigate
Use a less obtrusive texture than pure black for the wires. You could also try making them look like they're hanging down instead of being dead straight
Looks like a solid start though Some general points:
- When you're putting your map into a zip, right-click on your dummy cstrike folder and do 'add to zip'. Your zip file had an extra de_grounds\ folder than was unnecessary and prevents people from extracting the map directly into their cstrike dir.
- Since this is not the final version, try to name your file something like de_grounds_b1 or de_grounds_test or something, so that people won't have to keep overwriting the same file. The fast download setup on the server cant cope with multiple versions of a map with the same name, so it's really a necessity.
- Liven your map up a little. Have water coming out of the fountain. Add sounds wherever you can (music in the pub perhaps)
- Don't limit yourself to the torn wad if you have more ideas. There are lots of good sites out there with free textures to use. blaz.csbanana.com is a favourite of mine but there are many others (have a look in his links section, I'm sure there are some there)
- Make it easy for the player to learn your map. Add decals on the wall to point the way to the sites, and add unique landmarks (like the fountain and the well) so that they can easily identify areas of the map
- Get rid of the giant stacks of crates. Torn has tons of good building textures so try and make cover using them wherever possible
- Keep going You've made a good start
Try fixing some of those small errors and getting rid of a few of the plain walls, then make a de_grounds_b1 (or whatever) file and I'll set it up on the server for you
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| « Last Edit: April 16, 2005, 09:32:25 AM by Grounded » |
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Justboy
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2005, 09:17:17 AM »
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Welcome Reverend. de_torn is my fav map so that's a good texture pack to use . Lets get a playtest going ladies. Pwn!
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2005, 10:01:03 AM »
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Great input thank ya.
I'm cramped for time, but hopefully I can get it up and runnin' for ya by the end of the weekend 
That bottle texture faux pas I noticed about 8 compilings ago ... easy fix that I kept forgetting to change 
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TobY1KaNobY
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2005, 10:14:27 AM »
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welcome rev  keep the maps coming
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ToBy1
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2005, 11:00:07 AM »
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Great input thank ya.
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You're welcome
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2005, 01:22:13 PM »
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Here ya go >> Download here. (inactive link)
I changed a bunch of textures, made a few fixes and changed the name to de_grounds_b2.
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| « Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 04:27:21 AM by Reverend » |
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2005, 02:00:15 PM »
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Do you know how to include textures into a bsp? Your zip has the full BlazAsian_wad when you've only used some of the textures - that means your download is 8 megs when it could be much, much smaller. Read this:
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?doc=1015283010-58181000
As for the map, I like the improvements. T spawn has a bit more character and some areas are starting to shape up. I like the tunnels with the light spots - they were in the previous version but I forgot to mention them Apply the same principals of improvement to the rest of the miscellaneous corridors and walls and you'll be sorted
If you sort the wad problem mentioned above I'll upload the map to the server and we can test it for gameplay on Thursday with the other custom maps.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2005, 12:16:04 AM »
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Workin' on it ... headin' to bed while it compiles ... 4 hours should be plenty of time Previous attempts have seemed like nothing is happening. I may need your help on that one.
Thanks again
Note: Added sprites to the lights.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2005, 04:29:06 AM »
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Compilation: Successful
Sprites: Unsuccessful ... ah well
Anyhow, the new link minus the .wads >> Clickeh
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 06:08:18 AM »
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Workin' on it ... headin' to bed while it compiles ... 4 hours should be plenty of time Previous attempts have seemed like nothing is happening. I may need your help on that one.
Thanks again
Note: Added sprites to the lights.
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Long compile times usually mean that VIS is having to do a lot of work. Try and lower your topmost SKY brush so that it's flush with the tallest building in your map.
Sprites: The best thing to do when adding glows to lights is to use env_glow - you won't need to change any settings except maybe the scale.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2005, 09:23:52 PM »
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I moved the skybox down as suggested but it didn't seem to have a whole lot of effect. Actually, the sky wasn't that much higher than the tallest building. I suspect that this mess (see below) has more to do with the issue than anything else. I've been procrastinating on cleaning it up.
I had already figured out my issue with the sprites by the time I read this post (I forgot to change the FX to 255) and they work fine now. I'll definately try the env_glow on my next map though. Unless it has some particular advantage other than what you already said, I'll leave the sprites as they are. Either way, I'll take do whichever you recommend.
Question about including wads. I've been using -nowadtextures because I have multiple custom wads. Is there a way to use multiple wads with the -wadinclude function? I'm trying to keep the size down to a minimum (especially since I intend to include sounds as previously suggested).
Thanks again for your help and support ... it's greatly appreciated. Your suggestions have made a world of difference so far.
Oh, last question ... I can't find any good resources on using decals. All of my attempts, so far, have turned out unsuccessfully. Do you have any good links or suggestions?
~Rev
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2005, 05:20:43 AM »
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Lol that could well be it! You could probably avoid cleaning that up by putting sky brushes between the sky and the outer walls to seal up the map.
I believe env_glow has the extra feature of fading in and out with distance, whereas env_sprite's are fixed.
Yes you can use -wadinclude with multiple wads. Simply put -wadinclude wad1.wad -wadinclude wad2.wad as many time as you need. Alternatively you could download Nemesis batch compiler (http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/) which makes things a whole lot easier.
What do you mean about decals? You can't get them to work at all? Add decals.wad to your textures list (note the decals.wad included with Steam has one or two extra ones like A and B sites, but you need GCFScape to extract it). Now click the decals button in Hammer - it looks like a block with a target on it - and directly apply the decal to a face using the 3D view. Unfortunately you dont have any control over moving decals once they're placed, so you can't flip them over if they're facing the wrong way. The only way to do this is to flip the texture behind them over i.e. use the texture application tool and invert the signs of the two X values.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2005, 09:05:57 PM »
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skybox - good idea! the poor man's patch ... erm ... and by poor I mean lazy
env_glow - env_sprites do that too (or at least they do with the sprite I gumped into using. Sounds like they just made env_glow the quick solution to glow sprites. Thank god ... Not that it's a lot of work, but I have to deal with changing them and then going back and getting the one I missed after compiling it.
-wadinclude - excellent, I was wondering if that was how ya do it. I didn't want to go through the compile only to find out it didn't work Thanks for the Nemesis link
decals - as I stated in a previous post, I just got home a couple of hours ago after a 13 hour shift ... I'mma gonna have to go back through this post when my mind unfreezes and I can focus on more than a 5 word sentence. heh
Thanks again! (from now on, just assume this is at the end of each post ... I'm sure you're sick of hearing it by now )
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2005, 06:29:24 AM »
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Thanks again! (from now on, just assume this is at the end of each post ... I'm sure you're sick of hearing it by now )
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Not at all. Have some good karma
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2005, 12:54:28 PM »
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Ok some thoughts after having played it. The most obvious problem at this stage is that no one has a clue where they're going, through a combination of the repeating textures and the lack of signposting. Obviously it's a pain to place decals and then delete them later when you have to move a wall, but it's maybe worth doing anyway. For some other points I took a basic overview pic and numbered some areas:
1) These two routes run side by side and are kind of redundant. Join them together and perhaps make them a little twistier (buildings jutting into them etc.) so it isn't a straight run.
2) This route has no potential for action until the Ts reach the bombsite. Maybe find some way of connecting it to other areas, allowing the CTs to have a pop at the Ts while they're rushing. I'm thinking it's like the house route in inferno - it provides a straight run for the Ts round to the back of the site, but CTs have chances to shoot at them along the way.
3) This route gives Ts the high ground when they come to the bomb site. Shouldn't it really be the other way round? I found that site was a bit hard for CTs to defend unless they got right in there quick and camped. JB wanted it to be a bit less open.
4) The cover in the fountain site (other than the building) is up against the wall, so it isn't really cover. Try and move stuff out into the open to make the firefights more interesting.
Just some things to think about
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2005, 02:46:42 AM »
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Great suggestions, working on it right now. So far ...
... eliminated the wall between the redundant halls and moved CT spawn to that area. This oughta give the CT's a little more time to either rush or set up camp. They should be able to get above the pub before the T's now. I also added some construction to the well site complete with a ladder on the way to the site from CT spawn.
Still working on the fountain site ... I'll post some pics whenever I get a chance.
Oh, I got the decals working. I guess the few times I messed around with 'em I was outta my head 'cause I don't think they could be any easier to apply. Thanks for the info.
At the moment I have signs up instead of decals so it won't be too much effort to move things around if I need to move a wall.
Side note ... is there an easier way to create the overview other than to take many many birds eye ScreenShots and paste 'em together? The one you did looks great!
Thanks again for the input!
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2005, 04:55:43 AM »
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Start a new game with only 1 player slot. You'll spawn without any weapons. Now go to console and type dev_overview 2. That's it, although when it comes to making the final overview to go with the map file it's a little more complicated than that.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2005, 11:09:00 PM »
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I started a 1 player game, went to console and typed dev_overview ... it isn't working for me. I made sure I typed developer 1 in console before I did the dev_overview as well. I'm missing something simple I'm sure, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is. If you don't have any ideas right off the top of your head as to why, don't worry about it. I'll figure it out eventually.
Progress as is ... let me know if this is more in lines with what you're thinking. And, I forgot to take a SS of the new CT spawn and don't have time to take it now ... crap.
This is coming from CT spawn heading towards the well site.
A view from on top of the wall pictured in the previous picture.
Added signage at CT spawn, T spawn and the middle (area with the cart).
Flashed up the fountain a bit (the water is still a WIP, I was just tired of looking at the dry fountain. Also, I moved some boxes away from the walls and scattered them up a bit. More to come from this site, just haven't figured out what yet
Also in progress but not pictured ... at the ramp leading from the fountain area to the middle tunnels, I've knocked out a couple of windows and made a new route to the side path. I'll take pics when it's more refined.
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| « Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 11:10:11 PM by Reverend » |
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2005, 11:45:18 PM »
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BIG IMPROVEMENTS...looks great. Now off to sleep
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2005, 03:28:04 AM »
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Thank ya thank ya
dev_overview - I got it to work ... only thing is, when I do it all of the areas that are covered (like the hallways and such) appear covered in the overview shot. How did you get it so it showed the hallway/building interiors?
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Justboy
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2005, 05:19:58 AM »
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That first new pic looks really cool and I like the fountain improvements. I was in the server when we did a wee playtest and the map played really well. There are some nice campspots (particularly up above the well bombsite) and the sites are clear and open. Perhaps my one criticism was that some areas seemed too wide and open. Other than the cool shadowy tunnels, the pub and the shop areas all the passageways seem to have very high grey walls. Nevertheless, the map is really nice work  .
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2005, 05:21:26 AM »
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If you type dev_overview 2 you get a clean overview, whereas with dev_overview 1 you get some numerical data scrolling at the top of the screen. You'll need to make sure you have the swimup and swimdown commands bound to keys - they are used to tweak one of the values (Zmin I think) which allows you to crop off the map at a certain height, thus exposing the tunnels etc. You may have to take multiple shots at different heights and then patch them together when it comes to doing a final overview.
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Reverend
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2005, 07:14:11 PM »
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Sorry for the delayed response. I was hoping to have a new version ready for today, but work is killing me lately. Wednesday to Friday last week I worked just shy of 40 hours and so far this week (Mon-Thurs) I've worked 48 hours. It'll be a hell of a paycheck, but I haven't had time for much.
Thanks for the words of encouragement JB. The gameplay was my biggest concern, I'm glad it went smoothly . I'm redoing the map due to a texturing issue that got out of hand, so I'm going to try and drop down some of those larger than life walls and such ... drop the ceiling so to say.
Grounded - got it to work great ... thanks again.
Oh, and for those who noticed the grounds credits in the map, no worries, in the final release, y'all will get a fair shake in the spotlight too  Y'all have been a great help so far. I can't say enough how much I appreciate it.
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Grounded
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2005, 06:21:52 AM »
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Cool If you're demolishing the big plain walls try and replace them with more architectural structures, like the various buildings scattered about the place. Even if you'd got a new version ready I wouldn't have been able to upload it - see the Off Topic forum!
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TobY1KaNobY
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2005, 07:57:06 AM »
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damn i missed a playtest again 
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ToBy1
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Re:de_grounds cs1.6 map (beta)
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2005, 12:52:33 PM »
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No I think you were there Toby!
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