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Topic: Mapping Challenge #2 (Read 9996 times)
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Deuce
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Mapping Challenge #2
« on: August 18, 2003, 02:46:54 AM »
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Ok..now that the build a map in a limited ammount of time challenge is done..i was thinking about what else we could do..and i thought of two different challenges:
#1 - using only a premade .wad texture pack, make a level (no valve textures, no custom, only the ones available in the .wad file)
or the one i like but might be extremely hard to do..
#2 - work together to make an exclusive csr map called cs_reloaded. the fun part would be as a group trying to pick a theme, and maybe even have other people throw out ideas to use.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2003, 04:55:30 AM »
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Both good ideas although as I understand it we still haven't wrapped things up on the last one!
Have you ever seen the maps from the 52 hours contest? Basically there was a single premade wad (although I think you were permitted to make your own tex too) and you had 52 hours to make the map. About halfway through they passed out a suplementary wad too. 52 hours is all they got but you should see some of the maps!
cs_reloaded sounds pretty cool too but I think it's a bit early to get another contest going...
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2003, 09:22:42 PM »
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Good ideas Deuce, heres more  First, we could either finish ICBM and make a competition out of it, or we could all join together in making one map.
Either that or work on textures and prefabs for the competition. Issue what needs to be built, and give so long for it to be done.
Or, we could issue the challenge to make one (1) room that could be the center of a map we all help make (the winner would assume the project lead).
As for the first challenge, it should finally be wrapping up this week. I think we shall do another run at the playtests on wednesday.
* Addon *
Or the next competition could be we issue one theme or type of base, and thats the type of map that has to be made. Suggestions could come from the community.
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| « Last Edit: August 18, 2003, 09:25:17 PM by MysteryMachine » |
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2003, 11:31:04 PM »
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i'm up for any one of those ideas or combinations. i like the combination of:
| exclusive csr map called cs_reloaded |
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| the challenge to make one (1) room that could be the center of a map we all help make (the winner would assume the project lead). |
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| Suggestions could come from the community |
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and last time i checked..we can work on this using both Quark and Worldcraft..since i was able to open ICBM with Quark.
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2003, 12:21:49 AM »
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i'm up for any one of those ideas or combinations. i like the combination of:
| exclusive csr map called cs_reloaded |
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| the challenge to make one (1) room that could be the center of a map we all help make (the winner would assume the project lead). |
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| Suggestions could come from the community |
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and last time i checked..we can work on this using both Quark and Worldcraft..since i was able to open ICBM with Quark.
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That sounds good. But I think we should do it in this order :
#1 Get a suggestion from the community on what kind of map this should be (de, cs, as and look of map)
#2 Run a short prefab/texture comp. or build phase (for use in the map)
#3 Run the comp. for the room (if two rooms are well liked we can use both)
#4 Turn the room into ??_reloaded
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2003, 12:40:43 AM »
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all sounds good except:
| #1 Get a suggestion from the community on what kind of map this should be (de, cs, as and look of map) |
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you left out es
| #2 Run a short prefab/texture comp. or build phase (for use in the map) |
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i like a build phase of texture gathering rather then comp.
question is..should they all be custom textures or can we use stuff from other wad packs? i think it would be more fun with custom textures
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2003, 05:52:01 AM »
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I like this one room idea - takes a lot less time to make one room than an entire map!
However we don't really have a huge mapping community and so making custom textures etc. might be a bit of a long haul - I made a few for thinktank but they took a while and were pretty uninspiring. You could alternatively find or compile a large wad file for a particular theme and then stick to those textures.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2003, 11:55:06 AM »
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I actually like the idea of doing a csreloaded map.
What we can do is have the community come up with a theme, and then we can Have all of the mappers do a 'rough outline' of the map. Once the rough outline is decided on, we can load it to some FTP space, and people can dl the map, make changes, and upload their latest version.
Also, I wouldn't be against having the community finish de_icbm. I actually have a little more spare time than I thought I would (somehow, AFTER the baby was born I ended up having more free time.... go figure), so I will be trying to finish de_ICBM as I go. I would not be against help though. 
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2003, 01:02:02 PM »
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I reckon you pick a theme (through community suggestions or whatever), find some tex, decided how many major rooms/landmarks there need to be and then delegate the rooms to the mappers involved. Of course you'd need to put them together afterwards and polish them up for consistency but I think that would be pretty cool. If each person is only concentrating on one room then they can concentrate all their ideas in one place and hopefully make something quite shiny.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2003, 01:08:38 PM »
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good stuff..but now the question is..what theme would a map called csreloaded have? 
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2003, 01:34:02 PM »
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Doesn't matter - think of assault, siege and prodigy, those don't really have anything to do with the graphical theme of the map.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2003, 01:52:09 PM »
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It should be a hard drive testing lab that has been taken by terrorists, and the CTs have to go in and rescue Eugene and Davin.  We could even throw some big signs in there!
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2003, 02:28:59 PM »
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ROFL!!!!!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2003, 03:05:15 PM »
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If you guys could make a map like shogun i will be impressed.....
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2003, 03:10:50 PM »
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Don't get your hopes up X...
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2003, 07:14:19 PM »
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also..if we were to team up and make different rooms, we need to remember to keep a uniform measurement.. how many units of space between ceiling and floor, size of doors, size of walls.. ect.
1 person making a door 64 units high, and another person making them 112 units high..it would look weird.
my current vote for a theme: a military gun machinery depot.
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2003, 08:37:40 PM »
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How about a "guns of navero" theme?
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Kaoz
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2003, 09:02:27 PM »
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one thing, if you make this map, please make it a de_ map! please!
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2003, 10:03:11 PM »
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How about a "guns of navero" theme?
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afraid i'm not familiar with that
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-=]H[=-Smokey
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2003, 10:14:12 PM »
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Grounded... anything can be better than iceworld or poolday I assure you lol... and if they can be that popular... why can't these? lol
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2003, 11:10:01 PM »
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It should be a hard drive testing lab that has been taken by terrorists, and the CTs have to go in and rescue Eugene and Davin. We could even throw some big signs in there!
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I'm serious. I think if we're going to do a "CS Reloaded" map, it should carry something of our history and character in it.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2003, 11:37:53 PM »
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my history only goes back a year and a half..so if you would like to explain these references to me..
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Kaoz
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2003, 12:22:09 AM »
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Eugene and Davin ran the original Storage Review i believe? i joined CSR soon after SR's demise so i'm not sure
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2003, 12:27:26 AM »
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Guns of Navero is an old movie. Basically there was something like 12 Britians to infiltrate a nazi heavy gun fortress (coastal) and blow up the guns then escape via small boat. Maybe the Dirty Dozen would be better? (Wheres ACE when you need him???) 
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2003, 01:21:50 AM »
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hmmm... what about like an old west john wayne one? I think that would be kinda cool... like small little buildings but u can also go outside and shit... I think that would be awesome... but a GOOD OLD WEST ONE... not the other crappy ones...
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2003, 02:16:57 AM »
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hmmm... what about like an old west john wayne one? I think that would be kinda cool... like small little buildings but u can also go outside and shit... I think that would be awesome... but a GOOD OLD WEST ONE... not the other crappy ones...
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and make it a pistol only map...
how many more suggestions should we get before we decide on one?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2003, 03:54:14 AM »
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Smokey - I wasn't saying it couldn't be could I was saying it won't be anything like cs_shogun!
Right, themes. There are some problems with themes such as old west etc. in that they don't lend well to deconstruction into rooms. The map would have to be primarily indoor with small outdoor areas (if any) being considered 'rooms' as well. Also indoor maps are infinitely easier for containing r_speeds since you can practically seal off each single room by your placement of the entrances and exits. The other problem is textures. Most textures freely available are either: a) weird random things like aztec, egyptian etc. b) industrial.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2003, 07:16:26 AM »
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sometimes though you can strike it rich with texture packs. The Wadfather site has some pretty good wad packs, and some of them have some really good pre made theme packs.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2003, 01:44:30 PM »
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hmmm... what about like an old west john wayne one? I think that would be kinda cool... like small little buildings but u can also go outside and shit... I think that would be awesome... but a GOOD OLD WEST ONE... not the other crappy ones...
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and make it a pistol only map...
how many more suggestions should we get before we decide on one?
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Yes with pistols... excellent idea Deuce !
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2003, 02:11:11 PM »
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Apparently you guys don't remember dm_wildwest, which I cranked out a while ago. It was an iceworld style map, only with a bunch of old western style buildings, with everyone getting a Deagle and with pump shotties and scouts plastered all over the map.
Unfortunatly, the map crashed the server (no idea why) and so I scrapped it. 
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2003, 02:41:03 PM »
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The server probably crashed due to the statsme knife error. Maps like that cause extra knifings to occur.
As for the type of map, I think we should make a post about it, I dunno where, but maybe ask for 6 suggestions, then put up a vote for it. We already have a few, but we could use a few more. I suggest we make a manufacturing plant of some sort. Maybe even a chemical plant.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2003, 03:00:01 PM »
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A manufactoring plant would be pretty cool. There is a place down the road from me that would make an awesome CS map. It is a plant on the side of a river, right next to a small dam. The plant makes plywood/particleboard, which means that inside the warehouse we can use 6 sided 'bundles' of plywood (think de_vertigo) for cover. Low w_poly.... good stuff.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2003, 03:52:05 PM »
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The server probably crashed due to the statsme knife error. Maps like that cause extra knifings to occur.
As for the type of map, I think we should make a post about it, I dunno where, but maybe ask for 6 suggestions, then put up a vote for it. We already have a few, but we could use a few more. I suggest we make a manufacturing plant of some sort. Maybe even a chemical plant.
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Yes that•s good I like that idea we should get 6 r more suggestions and put it up in the POLLS AND VOTES and see what people want .. 
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2003, 04:24:58 PM »
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The server probably crashed due to the statsme knife error. Maps like that cause extra knifings to occur.
As for the type of map, I think we should make a post about it, I dunno where, but maybe ask for 6 suggestions, then put up a vote for it. We already have a few, but we could use a few more. I suggest we make a manufacturing plant of some sort. Maybe even a chemical plant.
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it should be some sort of machine manufacturing..it has to be some that the terrorists would want to take over.
i'm imagining lots of crates, converyor belts, and catwalks.
now why would the terrorists want this building? would they want to blow it up for some reason? or would they want to take the head manager hostage for some reason?
it is very possible to make one big room, but keep the wpoly count down by having plenty of vis blockers. i use to work for vermont teddy bear company..and the actual factory part of the building is just 1 large room..but with lots of boxes full of supplies everywhere.
and then you could add side office rooms where the hosties could be, and a small outside area with police cars and the ct spawn.
and for those keeping track..themes so far:
a map with the history of csr
western style
weapon depot
machinery
manfucaturing building
people involved so far in the actual making:
MM
grounded
deuce
and maybe slight?
i change my vote to the manufacturing building
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2003, 04:58:14 PM »
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Just for reference:
http://www.storagereview.com
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[Wumpa] Porter
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2003, 09:21:32 PM »
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I got it!!
A hard drive manufacturing plant!! Oh oh.. even better, one run by a tyrant! Hostage rescue point is by the pheonix poster
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2003, 09:36:19 PM »
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it seems to me that the manufacturing plant idea is rather popular for the moment..so i'm going to assume now that will be the theme..
the big question is though..where do we go from here? will the be more of a competition or more of a work together and make a cool map?
and if the latter is the case..how are we gonna split up roles?
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MysteryMachine
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2003, 11:27:40 PM »
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First off, lets find out who wants to be in this project, and what they can do. We can decide where to go from there. Perhaps we should make a new thread for this purpose?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2003, 11:39:43 PM »
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sounds good..new thread called cs_reloaded under the mappers delight will get peoples attention
i have more experience customizing textures for use of 3D modeling with Maya..so i can help there...other wise my mapping ability is lacking compared to grounded
also..i think once we see who is doing this, the first thing we should do is make rough sketches of everyone's ideas for maps, and compare
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2003, 04:49:49 AM »
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Deuce just snagged himself some more good karma for that last post
Anyway I definitely think we should go with delegating rooms to different mappers (i.e. no 'competition'). I don't really know what a hard drive manufacturing plant would look like but I'm sure someone does. As long as the rooms are basically self-contained if should be easy enough to integrate them afterwards.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2003, 09:06:16 AM »
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I'll jump in on it.... As long as it''s only a room, and not a whole map, I'm up for it.
I think Deuce has it right... we need to work out at least a sketch of the layout first.... and the once that is decided upon we can start delegating pieces of the map to different people. I have worked on a similar project before (the now defunct and never finished de_loadzone) and the way we started was to sketch the map, have one person layout the 'connectors' (meaning, if you have a map with 6 rooms connected with a bunch of hallways, then you start by laying out the hallways, then you can delegate the rooms, knowing that there will be no problem fitting them together). After the rooms were roughed out we would do a playtest. Then we would polish off the rooms, and last but not least one person would be responsible for final details and texturing.
There are other variations to this method, but in the end you need a way to ensure that the map will fit together once all of the rooms are done. Once the map is sketched out, scaling the objects on the sketch is very important as well. In worldcraft at least, one unit = one inch, so its pretty easy to figure out "Hey if I want a building to be 24 feet high, then that is 288 inches, so I will make the building 288 units high."
I'm all for the idea of a manufactoring plant..... lots of catwalks and conveyor belts....good stuff.
One idea that I had a long time ago that might work was to make a variation on the CS theme by giving the CT's the hostages, and then making them lead them out through a tertrorist controlled building. So in the example of a manufactoring plant, the CT's could be roof dropped via helicopter, break in through some skylights, and drop directly into the hosties room. You have to make sure that they can't get back to the buy zone, because if they can, you'll have a bunch of punks who rush to the hosties just for extra money so they can run back and buy a weapon or armor. Once the CT's have the hosties, you just have to make sure that the routes are varied enough to prevent the T's from camping on area. A warehouse or manufactoring plant is perfect, because you can have 3 or 4 exits to the building, each one of them a rescue point.
Just a thought.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2003, 11:12:46 AM »
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Nice idea with the hossies slight. When you did a collaboration before, how did you go about coming up with the layout?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2003, 11:33:52 AM »
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We started with real-world pictures of a dock-side loading zone (where ship containers are pulled via crane off of a ship and loaded onto trucks) and snatched the layout from that. Using that as a base, the 3 of us each came up with a variation to the layout so that we could try to work out choke points/routes that were conducive to a CS map. The sketches were compared, and a final version was chosen. Because this was an outdoor location we started by laying out the ground and the outside walls of the map, and then each of us began work on the buildings/objects that would make up the rest of the map. Because we all had the same layout to work with, it became easy. I kept a master copy of the map, and the other 2 guys would FTP their changes to my webspace, and I would combine it all into the master copy, and do compiling and leak checking....stuff like that. That was as far as we ever got. The plan was that once we had all of the 'pieces' together, that I would do the texturing/lighting, and then we would playtest and tweak from there. The other 2 guys I was working on it with had to go back to uni, and they just didn't have the time to finish it. I really didn't want to do the whole thing myself, so it sat on my hard drive for like 6 months and then Windoze crashed (big shock) and I had to format and reinstall and I lost it.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2003, 11:36:48 AM »
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| I think Deuce has it right... we need to work out at least a sketch of the layout first.... and the once that is decided upon we can start delegating pieces of the map to different people. I have worked on a similar project before (the now defunct and never finished de_loadzone) and the way we started was to sketch the map, have one person layout the 'connectors' (meaning, if you have a map with 6 rooms connected with a bunch of hallways, then you start by laying out the hallways, then you can delegate the rooms, knowing that there will be no problem fitting them together). After the rooms were roughed out we would do a playtest. Then we would polish off the rooms, and last but not least one person would be responsible for final details and texturing. |
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if we each had the main role (ignoring other roles like textures for now) of making 2 rooms each..that would give us a nice 8 room map, plus lots of hallways, catwalks, and vents.
Room ideas:
offices (where hosties are)
receptionist lobby
employee break room
| There are other variations to this method, but in the end you need a way to ensure that the map will fit together once all of the rooms are done. Once the map is sketched out, scaling the objects on the sketch is very important as well. In worldcraft at least, one unit = one inch, so its pretty easy to figure out "Hey if I want a building to be 24 feet high, then that is 288 inches, so I will make the building 288 units high." |
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i imagine that is also the same with Quark. we just need to create a uniform size throughout all the rooms (except for maybe some of the important "battle" rooms which could be larger)
| One idea that I had a long time ago that might work was to make a variation on the CS theme by giving the CT's the hostages, and then making them lead them out through a tertrorist controlled building. So in the example of a manufactoring plant, the CT's could be roof dropped via helicopter, break in through some skylights, and drop directly into the hosties room. You have to make sure that they can't get back to the buy zone, because if they can, you'll have a bunch of punks who rush to the hosties just for extra money so they can run back and buy a weapon or armor. Once the CT's have the hosties, you just have to make sure that the routes are varied enough to prevent the T's from camping on area. A warehouse or manufactoring plant is perfect, because you can have 3 or 4 exits to the building, each one of them a rescue point. |
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That sounds great, except the ct's will have the major advantage of getting more money throughout the map. What if there was just 1 hostage to rescue (the manufacturing president of operations?)
and the name of the manufaturing company...?
heh..
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2003, 11:37:30 AM »
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| I don't really know what a hard drive manufacturing plant would look like but I'm sure someone does. |
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Some clean rooms?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2003, 11:44:15 AM »
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| One idea that I had a long time ago that might work was to make a variation on the CS theme by giving the CT's the hostages, and then making them lead them out through a tertrorist controlled building. So in the example of a manufactoring plant, the CT's could be roof dropped via helicopter, break in through some skylights, and drop directly into the hosties room. You have to make sure that they can't get back to the buy zone, because if they can, you'll have a bunch of punks who rush to the hosties just for extra money so they can run back and buy a weapon or armor. Once the CT's have the hosties, you just have to make sure that the routes are varied enough to prevent the T's from camping on area. A warehouse or manufactoring plant is perfect, because you can have 3 or 4 exits to the building, each one of them a rescue point. |
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i just had another side thought.
if we were to use this method but only have 1 hostage..it would add a whole new twist to as_maps. think about it..with 1 hostage right near you at the beginning of the map..you have your VIP..except you dont have to worry about him not staying with the group. both ct's and ts would want to keep him alive..if the hostie dies, the cts dont get money, and the terrorist who kills him loses money.
i'm putting my vote for slight's idea with the altered 1 hostage idea
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| « Last Edit: August 21, 2003, 11:46:33 AM by Deuce » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2003, 11:56:53 AM »
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| One idea that I had a long time ago that might work was to make a variation on the CS theme by giving the CT's the hostages, and then making them lead them out through a tertrorist controlled building. So in the example of a manufactoring plant, the CT's could be roof dropped via helicopter, break in through some skylights, and drop directly into the hosties room. You have to make sure that they can't get back to the buy zone, because if they can, you'll have a bunch of punks who rush to the hosties just for extra money so they can run back and buy a weapon or armor. Once the CT's have the hosties, you just have to make sure that the routes are varied enough to prevent the T's from camping on area. A warehouse or manufactoring plant is perfect, because you can have 3 or 4 exits to the building, each one of them a rescue point. |
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That sounds great, except the ct's will have the major advantage of getting more money throughout the map. What if there was just 1 hostage to rescue (the manufacturing president of operations?)
heh..
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Not necessarily. You are talking about what, 50$, 100$ a hostage? For one player per round? I'd be up for limiting it to 2 or even 1 hostie, but I don't think it would be a real big advantage.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2003, 11:59:44 AM »
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Just saw your post.... I would go for 1 hostie.
This would be awesome. Not only do we have a cool community created map, but a whole new type of gameplay.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2003, 12:41:57 PM »
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The problem with the one hostage idea is that CS needs you to recue two to win the round. If that hostage dies, its then a death match (If I were a T, I'd shoot for the hostie so I could take my time).
I've got a good idea for the layout of some of the rooms, and I'll try to draw it. I'll post in about 30 mins when I'm done.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2003, 12:58:59 PM »
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| The problem with the one hostage idea is that CS needs you to recue two to win the round. If that hostage dies, its then a death match (If I were a T, I'd shoot for the hostie so I could take my time). |
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nuts..ok then..president and vice president of operations
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2003, 01:13:06 PM »
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Screw that.... it should be the mail room clerk and his biznatch that he was boinking in the closet when the whole thing went down.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2003, 01:35:23 PM »
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So I thought about the level, and I figured out mainly what we would need :
Front Lobby
Front Offices
Warehouse offices
Warehouse (raw materials)
Warehouse (finished product)
Manufacturing facility
Below I have attached a pic that could be how we can join the warehouse offices to the warehouse.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2003, 01:42:50 PM »
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looks good
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2003, 01:43:38 PM »
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looks good MM
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2003, 02:04:49 PM »
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i'm going to create an rough overview map with a few of my ideas..maybe we should each make one and compare ideas?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2003, 02:19:25 PM »
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Sounds good to me... If no one minds my handwriting I might sketch one out, and then scan it.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2003, 03:54:59 PM »
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i have a drawing for a map on paper just done..i'm just trying to make is easy for others to understand
i'll have it scanned and made simple in a few hours or so
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2003, 04:42:21 PM »
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I don't like to preplan maps - I just make them up as I go. You guys can come up with the layouts - I'll certainly help choose/modify them but I don't want to draw one out myself.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2003, 01:06:18 PM »
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| The problem with the one hostage idea is that CS needs you to recue two to win the round. If that hostage dies, its then a death match (If I were a T, I'd shoot for the hostie so I could take my time). |
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You could always set the mp_hostagepenalty to 1 for the map. Anybody that kills him gets kicked. It'd be harsh medicine, but would prevent what you're pointing out pretty well.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2003, 01:35:07 PM »
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I don't think that would be necessary. Of course, playtesting will show proof positive, but I think just the fact that the T would loose money by killing the hostie would be discouraging enough. Afterall, if you look at a map like Italy, most of the time once the CTs have the hosties the Ts aren't trying to kill them just to make it a DM. The hosties can become strategic as well. I like hostage camping as much as the next guy...
mmmmm...... Bait.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2003, 02:12:58 PM »
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Maybe after making the map we can try it as different types of maps? CS, DE, AS and ES (or others). I don't think we should limit ourselves by saying what it is before we even start creating it. But it never hurts to have ideas.
So in anycase, if we are not going to do a competition on this map, perhaps we should allow one person to get the ball rolling and do the general layout? Then we can all look at it and share ideas on what we like and what we don't like. By general layout, I mean just the basics; floor, roof and walls.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2003, 02:32:49 PM »
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i will start the ball rolling, and i will start two rooms extending off of MM's office area:
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2003, 02:34:34 PM »
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the above is where one of the doors will be
the other room i am making is assuming that there will be another door in the room on the same side..a rough picture of the two rooms i'm doing
the blue lines are where doors will be. the employee office will be elevated since it is on the upper area where the other office is. i'm assuming MM's office room will be at least that size
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 rooms.jpg
« Last Edit: August 22, 2003, 02:35:44 PM by Deuce » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2003, 02:45:32 PM »
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You start getting into dangerous territory when you have rooms butting directly onto other rooms. If you look at a lot of the indoor official maps they have important rooms isolated and the connectivity is through hallways. The hallway is the mapper's best friend since it can easily be very low poly and can be made to fully block vis.
I'm interested to see what slight's layout looks like...
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2003, 02:51:46 PM »
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| Maybe after making the map we can try it as different types of maps? CS, DE, AS and ES (or others). I don't think we should limit ourselves by saying what it is before we even start creating it. But it never hurts to have ideas. |
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How can we name a bomb/defuse map cs_reloaded? I kinda thought that decision was going to made for us by virtue of the neat pun it creates with our website's name. I mean, cs_reloaded is just perfect, isn't it?
Anyway, I gotta say-- I'm so excited about this. I mean sure, CS Central has map packs and map downloads, but they don't have their own map. I think this is an fabulously creative, inventive, unique idea. Make sure you do us all proud guys!
On a side note, I'd love to see CSR and SR "banners" in-game. Some homages to regulars would be nice too-- Ribs, Eugene... maybe even Sean (since he's a part of CSR history). I really want this to be our map, and not just another map.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2003, 03:14:57 PM »
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Good thinking porter....
Grounded, I will try and post a basic layout tonight... hell, I might even rough the thing out in worldcraft just so people can see it in 3D.
I'm doing a quick sketch layout in M$ paint (yes, mspaint is good for SOMETHING) and will post it in a few moments.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2003, 03:47:02 PM »
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OK this is kind of what I had in mind.. a big, open compex of building/warehouses. The CTs are dropped on the top of one of the buildings, and drop through skylights onto the bottom floor, where they grab the hosties, and make their way through the complex to several of the exits where the hosties will be rescued.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #67 on: August 22, 2003, 03:47:42 PM »
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I must say i cant wait too see how this turns out guys GL with making it....
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #68 on: August 22, 2003, 03:53:19 PM »
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Sorry....damn pic didn't link.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2003, 03:54:56 PM »
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Awww jesus...half the pic didn't show...
Here, click on this.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2003, 04:05:33 PM »
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i agree porter, i'd really like to see things about different regulars in it, including you and all the others who have revived this site.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2003, 05:01:22 PM »
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lol it would be funny if there was like a "Holy Grail" hidden within the map lol, or a car out front or in the place dressed up like the "MysteryMachine", with like fake character of Shaggy, Scoobs, Thelma, etc. Then you see like a thing for the paint that makes the "Primer" for painting unfinished walls or something... then u would have a "Grounded" wire in the ground outside or something maybe cause there is lightning outside...
Lame ideas of what you mean... but you get my point.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2003, 05:33:02 PM »
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lol it would be funny if there was like a "Holy Grail" hidden within the map lol, or a car out front or in the place dressed up like the "MysteryMachine", with like fake character of Shaggy, Scoobs, Thelma, etc. Then you see like a thing for the paint that makes the "Primer" for painting unfinished walls or something... then u would have a "Grounded" wire in the ground outside or something maybe cause there is lightning outside...
Lame ideas of what you mean... but you get my point.
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Actually, I think that's pretty cool!. And I have another one. If there are going to be cubicles, how about putting some "famous" CSR names on the entrances-- like plaques.
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| « Last Edit: August 23, 2003, 08:50:56 AM by Porter » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2003, 05:43:56 PM »
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lol, I really like those ideas lol... seriously... so cool... haha, and well... if its in a warehouse... why not have a small non-moving vehicle with Porter on the side lol, carrying some boxes or soemthing
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2003, 05:45:37 PM »
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What are "Famous" names Porter? famous names in the CSR community or like, Jackie Chan? Am I famous?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2003, 05:47:58 PM »
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here are the plans i made yesterday but couldnt manage to scan in..so i drew them.
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| « Last Edit: August 22, 2003, 05:48:58 PM by Deuce » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2003, 05:49:44 PM »
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stupid attachments
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2003, 05:55:33 PM »
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yeah Kaoz I think what he means by famous names is maybe like famous people around the CSR Community... like those who have been here like a long long time... like maybe someone like Raven... way back when SR was around.... not like me... you get it? lol
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CSR-Phoenix 2003 Rock On
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Kaoz
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2003, 07:07:27 PM »
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awww shucks, i wanted a plaque for "Arnold Schwartzeneger(sp?): Governor"
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2003, 11:20:03 PM »
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the best easter eggs are the one you wouldnt notice unless you knew it was there.
like an example..if there was an employees breakroom, and food was being served..there could be a sign that says:
Today's Lunch:
Ribs
another example of one would having a deck of cards scattered across a table, and they are all the two of spades. a hidden joke that most wouldnt get, unless you knew what it meant.
a van in the parking lot that has a resemblence to a certain scobbydoo vehicle..
a sign with a crossed out cigarette saying No Smokey Here
small things like that totally rules
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Holy Grail
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2003, 01:57:10 AM »
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lol, that would be so awesome... + karma for you!
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Grounded
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2003, 04:54:55 AM »
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All these ideas sound cool. We need a computer screen in there somewhere with the CSR forums up on it
Layouts: Both look quite good to me. I'd probably lean more towards slight's at the moment simply because Deuce's looks a little on the small side and is less compartmentalised. It would be easy to divide up the warehouse buildings in slight's version and even easier to put them together once they're done. The only thing that seemed a bit weird was 'ladders to 2nd floor offices' - I'm not an office worker by trade but that seems a little strange to me!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2003, 08:52:57 AM »
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What are "Famous" names Porter? famous names in the CSR community or like, Jackie Chan? Am I famous?
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Yeah, I meant CSR folks, but Jackie Chan rules too.
These are all great ideas guys. Like I said before-- do us proud!
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2003, 01:00:58 PM »
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All these ideas sound cool. We need a computer screen in there somewhere with the CSR forums up on it
Layouts: Both look quite good to me. I'd probably lean more towards slight's at the moment simply because Deuce's looks a little on the small side and is less compartmentalised. It would be easy to divide up the warehouse buildings in slight's version and even easier to put them together once they're done. The only thing that seemed a bit weird was 'ladders to 2nd floor offices' - I'm not an office worker by trade but that seems a little strange to me!
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i was thinking the same thing..it wold be easy to devide the work with slight's map.
that way we would have our own building to work on..and give it our own characteristics making them all different
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2003, 08:14:31 PM »
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we must have humpguy in there too somewhere....possibly causing....KAOZ! hehe
but i wanna be in there too! someone think of something witty and funny to somehow stick me in there...all i wanna do in fit in  hehe
o and by the way smokey, its VELMA not THELMA!! GEEZ! What kind of scooby doo fan are u! hehe
ayo
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dev
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2003, 06:46:24 PM »
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now these conveyor belts are they going to be like vents that you can get in and go through or do they move? sorry i didnt really read everything too much.... Just wondering!
o can i get my name in there!!.... there has to be a spot for DEV.....
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2003, 10:02:49 PM »
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well, not much has come from this within the past few days, so i'd thought i'd jumpstart the conversation again.
i know grounded has already put in his opinion towards the two map designs, and i'll put out mine for slights. i have only two questions. There are multiple warehouse buildings? and if so, why would people want to go in them if the shortest route would be just going around them?
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2003, 01:37:00 AM »
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i just thought of a new idea that might be very good.
if there were 4 seperate warehouse buildings next to each so it forms a square, and have an alleyway between them, you can start the ct's off in one warehouse and the t's in the other. since lots of companys have multiple warehouses (i'll go back to my vermont teddy bear company example..they have a warehouse where the people work and where the tours go on, another warehouse for where the bears are actually made, another where they are packaged..ect..) this would give us each an oppturunity to make 1 warehouse with the same dimensions, but each having its own distinct look.
ideas for warehouses:
offices
production
shipping
store
you could also add upper floor bridges between a couple of the buildings, so you can go between building to building like that or going through the alleyway.
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Grounded
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2003, 04:39:09 AM »
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One reason for going through the warehouses in slight's layout would be for cover. If the outdoor sections are fairly open then you'd be forced to go through the buildings to make it harder for the Ts. The open route might be the shortest but that doesn't make it the safest!
As for nothing much happening, I'm just waiting for some warehouse dimensions so I can get to work! Mabye I should just start something and then tailor it later...
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2003, 08:18:42 AM »
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Exactly as Grounded said, the middle warehouse would provide the best cover. The last thing a CT wants to do is to try to run a hostie in a big open area with nothing to stop the hail of bulletts. The layout is still pretty rough, and I'm sure it will be tweaked. I can try to work out some dimensions and what not (if we end up going with that layout that is) and then we can go from there. When I design a map, I always think in terms of routes. Take a map like Italy, or Inferno, there are clearly defined routes, each of them with pro's and cons. Take inferno, going hard left as a T is fastest, but how many times have we seen that route become an absolute slaughter.
Point being, in the end, a good map needs balance, and to have balance, you need options. Multiple routes, multiple choke points, multiple escape zones.
If people seem to like my layout than thats cool, but I would like to see other people chime in with additions or modifications. Someone already mentioned that having ladders in an office is silly, well, how about an alternative.
As for scale, I can rough out the map when I get some time, and that way people can see in 3d what I am talking about.
slight
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Grounded
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #90 on: August 25, 2003, 12:02:55 PM »
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Ok then here are some suggestions:
1) Remove leftmost escape point. Seems a bit too close to CT spawn.
2) Fewer doors. The fewer doors there are the easier it is to manage polys. Alternatively you could go with vis-blocking interior walls - not sure what kind of interiors you are envisioning.
3) Some sort of reason for the ramp/underpass bit - basement access or something.
Can't really think of much else.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #91 on: August 25, 2003, 01:10:05 PM »
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i think everything is ready to go mapping wise (i'm with grounded..i want to start making something ) all we need is the dimensions. i'd like to start working on the building marked "warehouse, 2 stories high, 2 floors, 2nd floor connected to bridge." (if no one else minds ) i just need to know dimensions for:
length of building
width of building
height of building
height of first, 2nd floors
dimension of doors
dimension of big doors
i think we all need these before anyone can start making buildings so we can have a uniform size look.
As for suggestions, the only one i have are to add somewhere in there big delivery trucks.
PS- i'm making that warehouse into a shipping and packaging warehouse.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #92 on: August 25, 2003, 01:17:41 PM »
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| 1) Remove leftmost escape point. Seems a bit too close to CT spawn. |
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Agreed.... leaving only 1 escape point on that side seems to be a better idea.
| 2) Fewer doors. The fewer doors there are the easier it is to manage polys. Alternatively you could go with vis-blocking interior walls - not sure what kind of interiors you are envisioning. |
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I wouldn't want to limit options too much by doing this, but I do see your point. Buildings are supposed to block VIS, and doors prevents them from doing this...
| 3) Some sort of reason for the ramp/underpass bit - basement access or something. |
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Hmmm.... I thought about giving the main warehouse an underground section (Like a garage or something)..... maybe the underpass servers as an entrance to that area.... we could even have another tunnell with a ramp that leads out of the garage and surfaces near one of the escape zones.
slight
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #93 on: August 25, 2003, 01:50:36 PM »
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i think everything is ready to go mapping wise (i'm with grounded..i want to start making something ) all we need is the dimensions. i'd like to start working on the building marked "warehouse, 2 stories high, 2 floors, 2nd floor connected to bridge." (if no one else minds ) i just need to know dimensions for:
length of building
width of building
height of building
height of first, 2nd floors
dimension of doors
dimension of big doors
i think we all need these before anyone can start making buildings so we can have a uniform size look.
As for suggestions, the only one i have are to add somewhere in there big delivery trucks.
PS- i'm making that warehouse into a shipping and packaging warehouse.
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Cool..... The length and width don't have to be exact... but just looking at the sketch I did I would think the building is somewhere around 40 ft long by 30 ft wide by 22 feet high (each floor approx 9 feet with extra room for floors/ceiling). So if 1 unit in WorldCraft = 1 inch, then 480x360x264. Make the doors about 8 feet (96 units)high, and make the big warehouse door about 12 feet (144 units) wide.
slight
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #94 on: August 25, 2003, 02:27:22 PM »
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i did like the initial idea of the hostages being right at ct spawn...but it got me to thinking....that means that EVERY round they will get money for attempting to rescue hostages....that is an advantage...granted there is only 2..but still.
That leads to my second "argument"...with only 2 hostages, there is a GREAT chance that they will be targets of accidental or intential kills. I know that if one hostage already died, and there is one more left and more cts than t's, i would not hesitate to kill the hostage and then hide and try to ambush the rest of the cts. With 4 hostages, it seems less likely that 3 of them will die and give someone an opportunity to execute this stategy....b/c i think after killing 2 hostages u lose all ur money but 1 hostage is like 2000 or something.
Secondly, with all these warehouses, i think many of the rooms and most likely one or 2 of the buildings will not even be used or rarely used. Since the cts already have the hostages from the get-go, they just have to make their way to the rescue point, they dont have to "worry" about the t's they just have to avoid then and kill any that gets in their way. This would make it VERY CT BIAS!!! All the t's have to do is guess the wrong building and they could lose without firing a shot....or if they split up and cover both buildings, get mercilessly slaughtered. I think with these 4 warehouses, the map is goin to be so big and involved that many rooms and places will not be used and be a waste....unless its smaller than i a thinking of and every warehouse if basically one room with obtructions and stuff....if this is the case than i can see it working....but warehouses with 2 floors?? that is way too big to cover or find anyone.
I also think that the whole point of a cs map is to storm in and fight ur way to rescue the hostages and then fight their way out...this idea would already hand the cts the hostages without doing anything and all they have to do it rescue the hostages....what this idea is is a VIP map just with 2 hostages and the ability to have all guns. Its a major disadvantage for the t's b/c in a VIP map where the VIP is already automatically with the cts (obviously) the t's have the opportunity to assasinate the VIP. However, in this idea the only the t's can win is killing all the cts b/c they can rescue the hostages that they have had from the beginning...it eliminates the t's oportunity to even prevent the ct's from "touching" the hostages. It also gives the WHOLE ROUND TIME for the cts to resuce the hostages they have had from the beginning...while in other cs maps they have to get the hostages which takes time and then escape with the time remaining.
Sorry for the long post....and dont be offended by my "opposing" opinion/argument. I like the idea but i think that it needs to be refined.
ayo
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #95 on: August 25, 2003, 02:36:24 PM »
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O WAIT!! I got a pretty sweet idea (at least i think).
This is my idea. There are 4 warehous buildings. 1 on each corner. CTs and Ts spawn in opposing corners (lets say Ct spawn is in the Northwest corner and the T's are in teh Southeast corner). 4 hostages are placed in the warehouse north of T spawn and east of CT spawn. The rescue zone would be somewhere in the building south of ct spawn and west of t spawn. This woudl create a very interesting map i think. The Ts could rush to the hostages to try to stop the cts from getting them...or they could go to the rescue and wait for the cts to come....or spilt up and go each way. The cts could rush the hostages directly..or they could go the long way around and go to the rescue point (taking out any t's goin that way) and kill the t's from behind. Or split up and try to secure both areas (hostage and rescue). This would utilize every building, making each important and well traveled. O and to get to the rescue point and hostages there should be multiple entrace points so that the t's can just camp one or 2 entrances. But have like a entrance from the roof and one from and ramp below and then 2 from coridors or something. I think this would balance the map A LOT MORE and still put a twist on the cs maps. Thoughts?
ayo
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #96 on: August 25, 2003, 02:43:10 PM »
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| unless its smaller than i a thinking of and every warehouse if basically one room with obtructions and stuff....if this is the case than i can see it working....but warehouses with 2 floors?? that is way too big to cover or find anyone. |
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this is the impression i got. most of the warehouses will be open, sorta like how it is in nuke. well anyway..thats what i will be doing for mine. the 2nd floor will be mostly catwalks.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2003, 02:54:41 PM »
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You know... we could do a really really easy playtest of the idea to see if it works... I could de-compile cs_italy, switch the T and CT spawn points and then recompile it with only_ents, and then we could load it on the server. Because entities are server controlled no one would have to DL anything.
I think Italy is varried enough that it would at least give us an idea of wether the idea would work. I'm not sure that it has ever been tried before. Personally, I think it would be harder for the CT's. Yes, they can all stick together and rush one of the sites, but as we have seen with DE_ maps, a smaller CT force can sometimes wipe out a larger T force, even when the T's stick together. How many times have we seen a full rush left on de_dust turn into a slaughter even though only 3 or 4 CTs are covering that side.
slight
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #98 on: August 25, 2003, 03:02:08 PM »
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italy might not be the best choice to test this out though..it only has one rescue area thus terrorists can just camp it.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #99 on: August 25, 2003, 03:09:33 PM »
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True.... I can't think of a map with more than one rescue point.... office? (I guess technically it has 2, but they are pretty close to eachother)
This is what I wanted though... a good intelligent discussion about the whole thing. In the end, the best ideas will make it, and the map will be better for it.
slight
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #100 on: August 25, 2003, 03:14:53 PM »
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assault might make a good map to test it on
and this is on another totally different topic, but someone needs to make a company logo for this harddrive manufacturing company..personally i like the name "harddrives reloaded" and somehow use the phoenix in the logo.
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #101 on: August 25, 2003, 03:17:21 PM »
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i have a layout that i drew out in Microsoft paint cause i didnt know anywhere else to put it.....how can i show it here??
ayo
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #102 on: August 25, 2003, 03:19:05 PM »
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ayo- go for it, though i think right now slights layout is what we will be going for.
slight- scratch that..assault wouldnt be good..office would be though.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #103 on: August 25, 2003, 03:19:54 PM »
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you should be able to just attach it to the post and it will show..
slight
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #104 on: August 25, 2003, 03:20:02 PM »
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no i mean how do i post it on here so that u guys can see my idea
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2003, 03:23:20 PM »
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it says the file size is too big...how can i "cut" the file size down so that i can attach it
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #106 on: August 25, 2003, 03:24:49 PM »
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E-mail it too me, and I'll load it on my FTP space.
slightcrazed@linuxquestions.net
slight
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #107 on: August 25, 2003, 03:28:57 PM »
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NOOO the maximum file size that i can send over hotmail is 1024k but the file size is 1765k....any other way i can compress it? dumb question...can i make it a zip file??
ayo
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| « Last Edit: August 25, 2003, 03:29:20 PM by ayo » |
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #108 on: August 25, 2003, 03:32:35 PM »
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i just sent the file in zip form...hopefully that will work.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #109 on: August 25, 2003, 03:53:52 PM »
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Are you sure it went through? I haven't received it yet.
slight
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Holy Grail
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #110 on: August 25, 2003, 04:00:12 PM »
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Dude, convert it into a jpeg... if its that big a a jpeg, then thats a massive pic lol
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #111 on: August 25, 2003, 04:48:47 PM »
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I firmly believe that play testing is going to be the only way to REALLy balance a map. It's just going to take a lot of iterations to get a map that isn't swayed too far in favor of one team.
If you think about, even as "biased" a map as something like militia is, the CTs still stand a pretty good chance of rescuing the hostages if they play their cards right. And sometimes which way a bias goes might not be blatantly apparent.
My humble suggestion is to not tie yourselves to any one plan of action. Try building your overall map layout, and then experiment with different play styles, choke points (by adding/removing doors, walls, boxes, etc) and hostage/rescue locations.
I've never seen a cs_ map where the CTs start with the hostages, but I think that is probably for a good reason. As intriguing an idea as it is, my personal two cents is that the regular cs_ method of play has evolved to what it is now by trial and error-- it might be best to follow a tried-and-true pattern. Not only does it make the map easier to make, it makes it easier for players to understand.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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ayo
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #112 on: August 25, 2003, 05:25:38 PM »
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yay!! i figured out what to do!! ok here is my plan...it is a rough sketch and is subject to change but this is what i think
each square is a building. Corridors lead to buildings...beams/conveyor belts lead to roofs of buildings...they could be above each other and whatnot i just couldnt show a corridor below a conveyor belt in a 2d pic. I personally like my idea of the hostages being in the separate building rahter than right there with the cts at their spawn...of course tho i would like my opinion more! But what is every elses thought?? Is my idea good?? Bad?? Any other suggestions for the very rough and horrible sketch i made?? (by the way...things can be altered in teh picture b/c with the layout that i gave it...the buildings are basically the same....but that can be changed...i just quickly threw out the idea and came up with multiple ways to enter each building). O and dont be fooled by the lenght of anything....its not to scale. I think that the corridors should be the same length so that the t's cant get to hostages any faster than the cts (or should one team be able to? i dont know what would be a good balance) The middle area is open ground...maybe with a crane here or there...roof good for sniping....maybe a couple of windows in the buildings too to snipe from...corridors can have obstructions to make close enounter battles yet open enough to have long hallway riffle battles. OOO and hte corridors can be like skybridges...not breakable but see thru (know what i mean...like made out of glass but cant be broken) so that people from ground can see where people are goin. Ok thats enough from me....FOR NOW!! MUHAHAHAHHA
ayo
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ayosplan.jpg
« Last Edit: August 25, 2003, 05:37:23 PM by ayo » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #113 on: August 26, 2003, 05:39:41 AM »
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Ooh lot's to read today
I think slight's layout looks a lot larger than it actually is. If you about some of the official maps and how many rooms/routes they have you'll find they're actually a lot larger than you think. Mainly it's because once you know the map you start to run efficient routes that will take you where you want to go as fast as possible. Look at the CT spawn building in slight's drawing. 10 seconds into the round the CTs will have all left that building and effectively it will be taken out of the layout - look at what's left:
Route 1 through the building on the left
Route 2 through the main warehouse
Route 3 down the underpass on the far right
Assume for the moment that the open areas lack enough cover for a hossie rush. Now those 3 routes converge towards roughly the same area. The Ts will be storming out of spawn and similarly the CTs will do the same if a little more cautiously. It would take no time at all for them to come within firing range of one another and, like any other map, if no resistance is encountered then you know where the other team has gone.
I think the layout is fine as it is (at least to get us as far as testing), maybe eliminate access to the building on the far right just to trim it down a little. I also think we should try out the 'Cts start with hostages' idea - it takes precious little effort to move hostage entities around anyway so it's not like we're being committed to anything.
On the topic of testing - if you were going to decompile a map to try this out I think aztec would be quite good. Of course it would take a little more effort to remove the bomb sites and slap hostages in at CT spawn...
I've seen people do stuff like this before and play maps like de_italy. Might be quite fun
Oh and if we're requesting buildings for ourselves I wouldn't mind having a crack at CT spawn if there are no objections.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #114 on: August 26, 2003, 07:46:22 AM »
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I don't think I have any objections if you want to get started. I too would like to see us at least give the 'hosties start with the CT's' idea a try. Who knows, maybe it'll suck, and we'll turn it into your basic Hosties have the CT's map (or even a de_ map), but I still think it has merritt. If we don't use any custom textures, and if our architecture is fairly clean, the map should be pretty small in size initially (at least for playtest purpoese) and we can run a quick playtest without too much trouble.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #115 on: August 26, 2003, 08:43:08 AM »
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i made a test room..i wanted to know if the size was too big..i made it bigger becuase i thought the other dimensions were too small for a warehouse
http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/deuceswildxxxx/cs_reloaded_deuce.bsp
i can make it smaller if needed. but that is the general look i'm going for
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #116 on: August 26, 2003, 08:44:45 AM »
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if that link doesnt work, save this file and change it to a bsp file
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #117 on: August 26, 2003, 01:02:14 PM »
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haha guess what Deuce... both dont work ! lol
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #118 on: August 26, 2003, 01:18:27 PM »
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no they both work...i just tested them out in a game...
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #119 on: August 26, 2003, 01:19:10 PM »
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Two things:
1) Judging by slight's post I assume you think we should use only HL tex to begin with and then replace them later?
2) Floors. I always say ground floor then first floor then second floor. Is this what you mean or do you mean only two levels and the 'first floor' is the ground floor in this case.
3) Care to estimate some dimensions for the CT spawn building? If not I'll make something up.
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2003, 01:23:55 PM »
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Two things:
1) Judging by slight's post I assume you think we should use only HL tex to begin with and then replace them later?
2) Floors. I always say ground floor then first floor then second floor. Is this what you mean or do you mean only two levels and the 'first floor' is the ground floor in this case.
3) Care to estimate some dimensions for the CT spawn building? If not I'll make something up. |
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1) thats what i'm doing.
2) 2 floors..ground floor is 1st floor, top floor is 2nd floor.
3) i didnt do my building the same dimensions because i thought it was too small. i made it a little bit bigger, though i can change it later if needed. I say make something up for now, and then change it if needed later. if anything, do what i did and make just the basics, so we can put it together and check things out (i just made the essentials..crates, catwalk, ladders ect..no details yet)
hey..that was three things not two..
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2003, 01:51:16 PM »
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"hey..that was three things not two.."
My degree is in Mathematics-Physics...
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #122 on: August 26, 2003, 02:02:03 PM »
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Nice...
Yeah, I think Deuce has it right...take a good guess on the dimensions right now. We can always adjust things later.
If I have a chance tonight (which I might) I think I will rough out the base of the map, and I might start on the T spawn building... we shall see.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #123 on: August 26, 2003, 05:32:15 PM »
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no one answered my question... thats is with all this changing going on..!!! will Someone tell me if the conveyor belts are going to move or be more like vents or what.??
sorry just wondering cause i think that having them is Awwwwwww-sssooommmeee
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #124 on: August 26, 2003, 06:38:44 PM »
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it is very possible to have moving conveyor belts.
how long do you guys think it will take for a rough version of this map to get up? i think before any major details is put into rooms, a rough map should be made and play tested
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2003, 08:52:14 PM »
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Absolutely.... I don't think it will take very long to rough the map out. Couple/three weeks at the most to get a playable version. Roughing out a map is always the easy part... it's the rest of it that is hard...
I didn't have a chance to do any mapping work tonight... but I'm sure I'll get a chance during the week or at least on the weekend.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #126 on: August 26, 2003, 08:56:05 PM »
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alright..since i have the basic of my warehouse done..anything else i can work on? maybe textures?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #127 on: August 27, 2003, 04:49:57 AM »
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You may as well have a go at some tex Deuce. I will be attempting some as well but if we can't come up with something map worthy there are tons of tex floating around for industrial/warehouse type maps.
I do think we should rough out the map and test it but surely that wouldn't take 3 weeks!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2003, 09:40:11 AM »
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I have a small request. It might be a bit pre-mature, but please try to work out a beta and release candidate naming scheme ahead of time.
cs_reloaded_b1
cs_reloaded_b2
cs_reloaded_rc1
Whatever it may be, I think it wise to have each beta use a unique name for the bsp so that they can be properly downloaded from the server during play testing. That also leaves simply "cs_reloaded" open for the final FINAL cut. Stay with _rc's until EVERY kink has been worked out too, so you can avoid the "_final" syndrome.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #129 on: August 27, 2003, 01:38:15 PM »
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Good premature point
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Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #130 on: August 28, 2003, 12:05:22 AM »
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I do think we should rough out the map and test it but surely that wouldn't take 3 weeks!
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heck..i was thinking this weekend..it cant take that long to make just a basic design for a test to see if the map layout works..
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #131 on: August 28, 2003, 07:39:27 AM »
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Well.... I have a 3 week old at home...so spare time doesn't come easy. I have some time at night, and I'll have some time on the weekends, but its not like I can come home from work and spend 4 hours banging out a map.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #132 on: August 29, 2003, 05:00:02 AM »
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How about you just do the T spawn and I'll rough out the rest once we have everyone's buildings? It shouldn't be that big a job if we're just using HL tex and bare minimum details.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #133 on: August 29, 2003, 10:56:53 AM »
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Sure, I'm up for that... the actual 'outdoor' part of the map should be pretty simple to do, once the buildings are done.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #134 on: August 29, 2003, 01:27:02 PM »
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Of course. If it wasn't simple I wouldn't have volunteered to do it!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #135 on: August 29, 2003, 09:17:47 PM »
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i have 2 good news
1) i'm starting to learn worldcraft, and i'll be able to transfer my work between the two (right now for me, making the map is better on Quark, but entities are 10 times better on worldcraft)
2) I just saved a load of money by switching to geico.
is there another building that needs to be done, or is everything covered right now?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #136 on: August 30, 2003, 03:49:54 AM »
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"switching to geico."
?
I'm not sure if all the buildings are covered - is MM doing the main warehouse or are we all pitching or what?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #137 on: August 30, 2003, 06:10:15 AM »
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Thought I'd post some screens of the CT spawn I made yesterday. It's very basic - the room is just packed with cardboard boxes to fill space. The CTs start on the roof and smash through the skylight to land on the gantry - I put some boxes on the gantry to make sure you could do this without losing health but as it turns out you don't lose health even if you miss the boxes! Once down the only way back up is with a boost from a teammate but you wouldn't be able to take the hossies with you. The only problem left is to put in some sort of time-delayed trigger to kill anyone who camps spawn or is afk - for extra comedy this could even be a switch somewhere
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #138 on: August 30, 2003, 09:19:16 AM »
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Wow, that's nice work!
About the camping spawn problem. I can only think of two ways around it, and one is a MUCH easier solution than the other. The easy one is make sure people can get back up there to kill AFKs or campers. A single "rope" would do the trick, wouldn't it?
The second is, as you said, some time delayed method of killing people up there. I don't think the engine can track that kind of thing for individual players on it's own, am I right? So you'd have to have some kind of explosion or lightning strike or something after a set amount of time that would just kill everybody up there?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #139 on: August 30, 2003, 09:49:47 AM »
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Thought I'd post some screens of the CT spawn I made yesterday. It's very basic - the room is just packed with cardboard boxes to fill space. The CTs start on the roof and smash through the skylight to land on the gantry - I put some boxes on the gantry to make sure you could do this without losing health but as it turns out you don't lose health even if you miss the boxes! Once down the only way back up is with a boost from a teammate but you wouldn't be able to take the hossies with you. The only problem left is to put in some sort of time-delayed trigger to kill anyone who camps spawn or is afk - for extra comedy this could even be a switch somewhere
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i feel so ashamed now for my map.. i'm think i'm gonna let you handle the textures for my map..
good job grounded
sorry..stupid american joke
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #140 on: August 30, 2003, 10:02:42 AM »
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You can do a time delayed method of killing of players using a func_hurt I believe.... I think you can trigger a func_hurt on or off using a multi_master, so you could just have a trigger hurt that gets activated after 1 min 30 sec or something like that.
That looks really good grounded.... that is actually the kind of room I was picturing in my head when I was thinking about the spawn area... I have some free time today (wife is going to visit my mother in law with the baby) so I'll try to rough out T spawn and post some pics...
As for the main warehouse, I guess that one is there for anybody to do. Any takers?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #141 on: August 30, 2003, 10:21:37 AM »
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| As for the main warehouse, I guess that one is there for anybody to do. Any takers? |
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i was under the impression that MM was going to do this..since he already started those offices..but i havent seen him on lately
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #142 on: August 30, 2003, 10:21:50 AM »
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Thanks guys.
Deuce - don't feel ashamed, all those tex are from the HL wad like we agreed. I didn't make any of them. Btw do you want to send me your roughed-out building? I can start putting things together that way. If you zip the rmf or map the file will be tiny.
Spawn-killing: The reason we didn't want people to be able to get back up to spawn was because we were going to try having the hossies at CT spawn. Hence if they could get back up then the hostages could be rescued straight away. It's not difficult to have the killswitch or timed kill feature, I was just making the point that it would have to be addressed. I think it would also be a bit of a hassle to have to go and climb up to check the spawn for any afks - I think some sort of auto-kill is better even if it is totally unreal.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #143 on: August 30, 2003, 08:20:30 PM »
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| I think some sort of auto-kill is better even if it is totally unreal. |
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a lightning storm happens after a minute into the match..kills anyone up there and covers up the hole with the rubble of something
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #144 on: August 30, 2003, 09:01:57 PM »
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OK this is my rough (very rough) interpretation of T-spawn. Just a basic room with some small catwalks and some crates. There is a door at the far end of the room (3rd pic) that leads to MM's offices and the main warehouse. There are also 2 large doors, one on either side of the room, that lead outside. This gives the T's 3 main choices when leaving spawn......left, right, or straight up the middle.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #145 on: August 30, 2003, 11:33:22 PM »
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i felt so bad with my total lack of a sketch map that i went back in and changed quite a bit of stuff..so i present to you..my new rough design:
i took out the ladder and replaced it with stairs..cause i remembered hostages cant climb ladders..
that odd red thing in the corner will eventually be a conveyor belt.
now..since this building connects to the main warehouse via the 2nd floor door, i can lower the catwalk down in order to match it (or we can make the bridge different so it goes in a slant?)
i personally like the walls that everyone has..and i think they should be the final textures..but i think each warehouse should have its own color wall..that way it will give a better idea of where people are (instead of typing out i'm in the warehouse with that stupid looking conveyor belt, they can type i'm in the blue warehouse.)
just a thought.
grounded- ignore the first email i sent you..the second one entitled "THIS IS THE MAP" is the correct file.
oh..and since this is suppose to be the shipping and packaging room, i'm going to create some custom textures for the cardboard boxes with "ship to:" labels..and then put on some of the cities of highly populated csr players. (as far as i can tell..the three major area of players on csr are the illinois people, the vermonters, and the canadians eh?)
plus, there should be a delivery truck outside of the big door with more boxes inside..that should make some cover for the open space outside.
--Deuce
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| « Last Edit: August 30, 2003, 11:44:52 PM by Deuce » |
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #146 on: August 31, 2003, 01:21:48 AM »
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Guys, teh map looks amazing... you guys rock.. + karma to all of you
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #147 on: August 31, 2003, 01:33:17 AM »
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what is with the purple stuff on the walls Deuce in your screen shots?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #148 on: August 31, 2003, 01:42:57 AM »
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Doorways
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #149 on: August 31, 2003, 06:16:11 AM »
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See the interest you can generate by posting a few pics!
Ok those both look very good - slight you want to send me the file so I can start putting these together or are you not happy with it yet?
Deuce - I know the HL tex look ok but I definitely think we should use custom textures in the end whether it be our own (although that might be a bit far-fetched!) or just a different wad. If we at least make a few ourselves then we can still do the colourscheme for the individual warehouses.
Btw can we make your room the packaging room and mine for shipping? I can't really see any other purpose for the CT spawn right now!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #150 on: August 31, 2003, 07:31:58 AM »
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slight you want to send me the file so I can start putting these together or are you not happy with it yet?[/quote[
Seeing as how this is a test, I'm not too worried if it looks 'finished' yet. I'll send you what I have.
e-mail?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #151 on: August 31, 2003, 07:59:36 AM »
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Nice, nice work everybody! It's hard for me to visualize how it's going to come together, but the pieces are looking incredible. I am really surprised at how nice the textures in Slight's room look! Even with just standard HL tex, it looks great! I like Grounded's point about making it "our own" though with at least some custom textures.
I also think giving the different buildings different colors is very good idea. Anything that can aid navigation is a good thing. Signs posts (or on the corners of buildings at the intersections) outside with names would be good too.
Speaking of which, I think we should try to figure out a way to name these buildings after their creators somehow. That might be harder in some cases than others. Of course right now, I can't think of how to use slight, deuce, grounded, or anything else in the name of a building, so maybe it's impossible. Of course, it is also 7:30 in the morning here. Too early to be thinking properly on a Sunday. Maybe a custom overview with names in each building?
Lastly, I also like Deuce's shipping label idea. Very creative!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #152 on: August 31, 2003, 08:28:01 AM »
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IM'd my email address to you slight.
I've roughed out almost the entire layout and put in a big empty warehouse for the main building. Once I have slight's T spawn I can seal the whole thing up and start making it look a little better.
I haven't seen MM about so I'll mock up his 'stairs' bit from the original picture too.
Seeing as this is just a test, I won't bother putting in a spawn-killing mechanism just yet.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #153 on: August 31, 2003, 08:29:21 AM »
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Well, instead of a single shipping company, it could be an 'industrial park' where several manufacturers rent warehouses..... We could have 'Deuces wild Shipping', 'Slight of hand Freight company' and 'Grounded Air transport'...... I mean think about it. Would you really trust your package to a place called Deuces wild shipping?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #154 on: August 31, 2003, 09:11:29 AM »
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Heh, probably not. I'd still very much like to get actual banners in the map for CSR (and if we can get approval) Storage Review as well. I' thinking kid of like the banners in clan_mill and fire.
Do you think we can have one of the buildings actually be SR offices? And maybe the hostages in cubicles or behind desks that had "Eugene" and "Davin" on little placards?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #155 on: August 31, 2003, 10:37:52 AM »
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Can we? Of course....
I'm curious though... why the desire to pay so much homage to Eugene, davin and SR? Not that I mind them of course, but its been a long while since they had anything to do with CSR. Are you including them just because of the history that there is?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #156 on: August 31, 2003, 11:03:48 AM »
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Yeah, pretty much. I mean, what differentiates CSR from any other CS server? What can we put in a map that nobody else would think of? (Or want to!?) What can we do with this project that a random author creating a "generic" map for CS-Central or Counter-Server wouldn't do if they were making their own map intended for 'everybody'? I very much want this map to be so well done that other server want to use it, regardless of the name, but I also want it to be a sort of legacy-- something that CSR players themselves will always look at and be able to say, "that's ours."
We have an opportunity to make a map that the entire CS community could go crazy for (however likely or unlikely that may be) and at the same time make it something really special for just us. A (C)SR history book we can read every time we play the game. I don't want it to be hokey or overdone, but if we can do subtle, sophisticated references to our 'heritage' and have no one else be the wiser, that'd be superb.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #157 on: August 31, 2003, 12:00:34 PM »
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I definitely agree with putting as many references to CSR in as possible but I think they should all be pretty subtle. Giant banners, like those in mill and fire, are a bit of the obvious side I think. Storage Review is different because you could come up with a reason for a banner, particularly if this is a hard drive plant. One of the cubicles could have a Storage Review poster or printout on the desk for example.
One thing I just remembered was that I think the T spawn was decided to be the lobby (assuming it's not an industrial park as slight just suggested) and obviously that's not quite what it is at the moment! I don't mind if we just go with what we've got to get a layout test done but I definitely think we need a lobby area. You could have a little reception desk with a 'Storage Review approved' placard on it! Plus if there are too many warehouses it becomes hard to add detail that isn't crates and gantries.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #158 on: August 31, 2003, 12:06:25 PM »
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| Btw can we make your room the packaging room and mine for shipping? I can't really see any other purpose for the CT spawn right now! |
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sure..but just switch is around..i want the shipping warehouse..i just thought of some new stuff to add and get rid of.
| I'd still very much like to get actual banners in the map for CSR (and if we can get approval) Storage Review as well. I' thinking kid of like the banners in clan_mill and fire. |
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giant advertisement signs outside on the border walls (i'll show you what i mean when we do a testplay of this map)
| Well, instead of a single shipping company, it could be an 'industrial park' where several manufacturers rent warehouses..... We could have 'Deuces wild Shipping', 'Slight of hand Freight company' and 'Grounded Air transport'...... I mean think about it. Would you really trust your package to a place called Deuces wild shipping? |
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i thought this entire area was a harddrive manufacturing plant..and the different buildings were for different parts of production (shipping, packaging, production, ect). though i do like your names though for companys
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #159 on: August 31, 2003, 12:09:55 PM »
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has the building on the far right been taking out of the map (the one connected to the "bridge connector thingy")?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #160 on: August 31, 2003, 01:54:32 PM »
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here is the other idea i had for my shipping warehouse:
it gives something different then having just boxes in there..i would need to go back though and edit the prefab to lower wpoly..and to customize it..maybe add the company logo to the side of the truck?
plus it would give me a reason to take out my stupid conveyor belt that i dont like
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #161 on: August 31, 2003, 03:09:29 PM »
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I like it, looks cool
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #162 on: August 31, 2003, 03:56:44 PM »
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Yeah, I forgot about the whole 'lobby' part.... It would be easy enough to make the T spawn into a lobby, and I'm sure we can still modify the little bit that I put together and use it as another warehouse building.
I can rough out a lobby also if you would like.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #163 on: August 31, 2003, 05:14:09 PM »
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Yeah, I forgot about the whole 'lobby' part.... It would be easy enough to make the T spawn into a lobby, and I'm sure we can still modify the little bit that I put together and use it as another warehouse building.
I can rough out a lobby also if you would like.
slight
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or keep what you have for the t spawn, and use the building on the far right of the map as the lobby
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #164 on: August 31, 2003, 05:31:18 PM »
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I think the rooms need to have some obvious purpose i.e. details that clearly identify them as a particular room. For instance, a shipping room should have an office, boxes to be shipped and a loading area. A packing room would have merchandise rolling along conveyors and being packed into boxes or at least the indication that this is what the room is for. If you take out the conveyor belt then the room is just boxes and space with a big truck parked in it! I think the truck needs to be used outside for a bit of cover - am actually thinking big vans might be better, polywise at least. I'll easily do packing instead - I don't really mind so long as we decide something.
slight - definitely have a go at a lobby, I'll use your warehouse to fill in the main warehouse for now.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #165 on: August 31, 2003, 07:06:29 PM »
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| I think the rooms need to have some obvious purpose i.e. details that clearly identify them as a particular room. For instance, a shipping room should have an office, boxes to be shipped and a loading area. A packing room would have merchandise rolling along conveyors and being packed into boxes or at least the indication that this is what the room is for. If you take out the conveyor belt then the room is just boxes and space with a big truck parked in it! I think the truck needs to be used outside for a bit of cover - am actually thinking big vans might be better, polywise at least. I'll easily do packing instead - I don't really mind so long as we decide something. |
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dont worry grounded..by the time i'm done with that warehouse..you'll know its for shipping stuff.
i'm editing that truck so it uses less wpoly..we'll see how it works
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #166 on: August 31, 2003, 08:10:20 PM »
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OK.... lobby done .
Please, PLEASE ignore the really really cheesey HL textures and the lack of fixtures and details.....this is only a rough approxamation that I banged out in about 1 hour.
Grounded, file en route via email.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #167 on: August 31, 2003, 08:13:07 PM »
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can you jump out the windows?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #168 on: August 31, 2003, 08:25:46 PM »
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very cool slight
only suggestion i have is that there is alot of open space..maybe a fountain in the center of the lobby?
i like the windows
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #169 on: August 31, 2003, 09:32:22 PM »
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very cool slight
only suggestion i have is that there is alot of open space..maybe a fountain in the center of the lobby?
i like the windows
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Hey, I'm open to suggestions.... remember though, I threw this together in a little less than an hour.... my only purpose was to have a useable room that can 'stand-in' for the time being as the lobby..... the final product will look nothing like the pics I posted above.
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Holy Grail
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #170 on: September 01, 2003, 01:21:22 AM »
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Wow, taht looks amazing
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #171 on: September 01, 2003, 01:24:11 AM »
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yeah, I know slight, I think u missed the hooker... I think we need a hooker lol... we could name it Primer cause he likes to spam and do shit all the time just like how many guys she sleeps with in one night... j/k
BUT, it looks amazing, keep up the good work !
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #172 on: September 01, 2003, 06:03:37 AM »
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Fountain? This is a manufacturing plant not a casino!
Looks good slight, I'll find some time to wrap the thing together later today if I can. The only criticism (which I suppose means nothing since this is a test version) is that there is no main door. I'll slap one in the middle of the glass wall if that's all right with you.
Expect a downloadable (albeit ropey!) map here pretty soon children!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #173 on: September 01, 2003, 10:08:37 AM »
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Go ahead...... Actually, I think a main door incorporated into the glass wall might look cool... eventually (finished product I mean) I would like to have several benches and chairs (like a waiting area), paintings on the walls, and some potted plants... all of that will help to 'fill it in'.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #174 on: September 01, 2003, 10:40:48 AM »
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I've been adding the lobby this morning and it brings up a good point - units. It's much easier to fit things together if their dimensions are nicely rounded to the WC grid (for me at least). We didn't mention this before hand but as it turned out Deuce used the ones I needed him to so it was a little tricky fitting in the lobby because it didn't have the appropriate dimensions. Now this is what I mean by appropriate:
Long walls/big blocks - multiples of 64 or 128 WC units in length, multiples of 128 high for walls
Steps/width of walls - multiples of 8 up to 32 WC units
Doors - a single door should be 48 units wide, 96 units high
I'm not complaining slight! I made some alterations and lined everything up in the end but it would definitely save some work if we kept some consistency. Now that I've altered it I suppose it doesn't matter since I can now send you my reshaped version and you can fill it in however you want to.
Back to work
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #175 on: September 01, 2003, 10:50:27 AM »
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not to be nit picky or anything grounded..but do you think you could send slight and me a copy of the test map before you give it to someone to put up for download? i just want to see it before the public does 
i've been working on lowering the wpoly of that truck..so far its going ok. i moved the front of the truck further out so there is more cover outside while giving a fair ammount inside. i have boxes inside the truck ready for delivery, with other boxes outside sitting around. and i also added an office on the wall under the 2nd floor door..none of this will effect gameplay compared to what you have right now..just more areas to hide. its really starting to come together
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #176 on: September 01, 2003, 10:53:24 AM »
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| We didn't mention this before hand but as it turned out Deuce used the ones I needed him to |
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heh..pure luck..i work using multiples of 16
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #177 on: September 01, 2003, 11:21:30 AM »
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| I think u missed the hooker... I think we need a hooker lol... we could name it Primer cause he likes to spam and do shit all the time just like how many guys she sleeps with in one night... j/k |
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Gigalo...
Gigalo.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #178 on: September 01, 2003, 11:43:13 AM »
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| We didn't mention this before hand but as it turned out Deuce used the ones I needed him to |
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heh..pure luck..i work using multiples of 16
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Hmm.... ya know, I never really was consistent with anything. I 'map by the seat of my pants' and just kind of throw things together as I go. If you want, in the future I can try to go according to what grounded listed above.
Also, as for w_poly, I have done NO optimizing for the 2 rooms that I created. I thought we might be a bit early in the stages to worry about that (spend all this time fixing w_poly only to have the entire layout change possibly).
I too would like to see a copy of what you have thrown together grounded. I'm getting kind of excited about this project. I think it might come together pretty good.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #179 on: September 01, 2003, 11:57:39 AM »
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| Also, as for w_poly, I have done NO optimizing for the 2 rooms that I created. I thought we might be a bit early in the stages to worry about that (spend all this time fixing w_poly only to have the entire layout change possibly). |
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i kept track of wpoly during my building just because i'm always interested on if i can keep it down..for instance the first attempt of my warehouse i did an awful job with wpoly..but with my remake i had it at around 150 to 200.. but adding the truck made it go up to 500's at the highest point..so i'm still working on trimming it
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #180 on: September 01, 2003, 01:13:57 PM »
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Some layout changes will probably be needed. I'm trying to block vis into the main rooms as much as I can but I don't think it'll look too good. I think the main door on Deuce's building needs to be move to the west wall (the one closest to the boundary of the map) so that it can't be seen into from the T spawn. I also want to extend that room with a 'loading platform' - I'll mock it up and send you both the WC file so you can see it and Deuce can start working with it (if he wants to!)
I put slight's old building in the space on the right of T spawn but it didn't quite work so I'm going to put an empty building there - to be filled by whoever.
The main warehouse is still empty. Not sure what to put in it - how do you manufacture hard drives anyway?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #181 on: September 01, 2003, 01:19:22 PM »
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Some layout changes will probably be needed. I'm trying to block vis into the main rooms as much as I can but I don't think it'll look too good. I think the main door on Deuce's building needs to be move to the west wall (the one closest to the boundary of the map) so that it can't be seen into from the T spawn. I also want to extend that room with a 'loading platform' - I'll mock it up and send you both the WC file so you can see it and Deuce can start working with it (if he wants to!)
I put slight's old building in the space on the right of T spawn but it didn't quite work so I'm going to put an empty building there - to be filled by whoever.
The main warehouse is still empty. Not sure what to put in it - how do you manufacture hard drives anyway?
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of course i'll work on it!
do you want my truck version of the warehouse? the truck adds a vis blocker of some sort..
also..if its not a problem, .map is better for me then a WC file so i can import it into quark
-Deuce
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #182 on: September 01, 2003, 08:56:42 PM »
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| Some layout changes will probably be needed. I'm trying to block vis into the main rooms as much as I can but I don't think it'll look too good. I think the main door on Deuce's building needs to be move to the west wall (the one closest to the boundary of the map) so that it can't be seen into from the T spawn. I also want to extend that room with a 'loading platform' - I'll mock it up and send you both the WC file so you can see it and Deuce can start working with it (if he wants to!) |
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Always seems to happen... I don't think I have made a map yet that didn't need some 'tweaking'. Once you send us the file I'm sure the 3 of us can get the w_poly to a respectable level.
| I put slight's old building in the space on the right of T spawn but it didn't quite work so I'm going to put an empty building there - to be filled by whoever. |
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Cool....
The main warehouse is still empty. Not sure what to put in it - how do you manufacture hard drives anyway?
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Uhh...... Bunch of robot arms and stuff....lots of conveyor belts, and assembly lines.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #183 on: September 02, 2003, 04:27:18 AM »
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I can't seem to find any useful reference on HD manufacturing online other than one or two pics of clean room robots. SR has detailed descriptions of the bits but nothing about how they are put together!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #184 on: September 02, 2003, 08:19:17 AM »
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I'm sure we have a bit of artistic license with it. Just picture a factory, lots of conveyor belts, robot arms swinging around, stairs, gantries, boxes, and as you said, a clean room. Of course, we don't want to make it too 'busy', but I don't think it would be hard to throw a couple of conveyor belts in a room w/ some boxes stacked in the corner.
Anyone good with milkshape, or even 3D studio max? The Robot arms of a factory like this would best be done with models, and not with world brushes. Models are easier on the rendering engine and don't count towards r_speeds. I haven't used milkshape in forever, but I certainly could give it a go myself.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #185 on: September 02, 2003, 09:29:47 AM »
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Ooooo.... robot arms!......
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #186 on: September 02, 2003, 09:31:57 AM »
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http://www.motomation.de/English/Products/Robotsys/Clean/Scara/SR8447C/content.htm
Judging from that picture the robots look quite small and would definitely be better as models. I have no modelling experience but I'm sure someone on here must have. Models do count towards r_speeds only they count towards epoly as oppose to wpoly and generally the epoly limits are much higher. I can throw in some blocks where robots would be for just now.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #187 on: September 02, 2003, 10:42:11 AM »
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The look that I am really thinking of is found in the original terminator movie. At the end of the movie Sarah Connor is being chased by the Terminator Robot through a factory, with all of these robot arms flailing and spinning around. Again, we do have some artistic license with this, so we don't have to copy an existing factory exactly.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #188 on: September 02, 2003, 12:25:15 PM »
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The way I've set up the main warehouse is on 3 floors. The bottom floor will be storage or something (not sure yet), the second floor is office space (accessible on the south wall through windows) and the third will be the clean room assembly lines. Each floor is only 128 units high so with this layout the robots would need to be pretty small - since the components are small wouldn't the robots be pretty small too anyway? I don't mind if we have some artistic license but I do think we should keep realism when and where we can. Of course I've never seen Terminator so I don't really know what you're picturing!
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #189 on: September 02, 2003, 01:19:11 PM »
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Not really... Even though the components are small the automated robots would still be fairly large...at least I think. 128 units is still decent in size, we'll see what we can come up with.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #190 on: September 02, 2003, 02:07:36 PM »
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The page I posted has robots of an arm length 800mm so they're bigger than I first thought. Once a model has been made it can be scaled up or down anyway can it not?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #191 on: September 02, 2003, 03:24:39 PM »
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Yes, I believe it can. We may even be able to get away with brush based robot arms, depending on what the r_speeds in the main factory look like, but for the final release, models would be preferable. I'll have to brush up on Milkshape (I don't own a copy of 3DSM).
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #192 on: September 02, 2003, 03:32:48 PM »
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i dont have 3d studio..but i have maya..does that help?
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #193 on: September 02, 2003, 06:54:32 PM »
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can you send me your revised version of my warehouse grounded? i wanna start getting textures for it.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #194 on: September 03, 2003, 03:44:15 AM »
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Don't you think we should make our own textures? I was certainly planning to. Do you want me to send you just your warehouse or wait and send the whole thing? It's almost to the point where I just need to seal it up with sky.
As for the robot arms, I'll just put basic brushes in for now.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #195 on: September 03, 2003, 06:30:33 AM »
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| Don't you think we should make our own textures? I was certainly planning to. |
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i was going to do a combination of finding textures, making my own textures, and altering textures.
| Do you want me to send you just your warehouse or wait and send the whole thing? It's almost to the point where I just need to seal it up with sky. |
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ok..either one will do
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #196 on: September 03, 2003, 07:50:29 AM »
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I think we should stop and think about textures for a second... The one thing to remember is that textures need to come in families. They need to be compatible, they need to be cut from the same mold. If you start grabbing texs off the web, and making some, and using some of the HL ones, you'll end up with a jumbled mish mash that just won't look right. I would prefer to either find one .wad premade and work around that, or to make our own from scratch. I'm actually pretty good when it comes to making texs, so I can take that responsibility if you want.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #197 on: September 03, 2003, 09:40:50 AM »
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A combination of those two ideas might work well too. if you find a wad that can fulfill most of your needs but is still lacking a bit, then you could probably add it it with your own custom textures. You'd already have the "feel" of the wad to go against, so you could probably match anything new with what's already in there pretty well.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #198 on: September 03, 2003, 12:25:12 PM »
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Well the map is now at a stage where it will compile. The bottom floor of the main warehouse is empty and so is the new building on the top right of the map by T spawn but other than that the layout is pretty much there. Some more doors are needed and the lighting is pretty harsh in places - I just threw things together so I could see! The outdoor areas are also very open but that shouldn't be hard to fix. Sending the file now...
Textures: I think we should make all of them or at least enough so that no-one notices the ones we didn't make. The way we've done the walls of the warehouses so far gives an idea of what we'll need - levels with each texture being 128x128. Have a go slight. I will too and we can see what we come up with.
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Re:Mapping Challenge #2
« Reply #199 on: September 03, 2003, 08:36:40 PM »
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Cool.... best thing I have found when it comes to textures is to make a base texture, and then any other textures in that family can be made with the base texture. I.E. we need several textures for the walls of the building, some of which will be cement or concrete. So one of us makes a 'generic' concrete texture, and we use this as a base for any of the remaining textures that also need to be concrete. So if we are going to both have a go at it I think we should start out making the 'base' textures, and making sure that we both have a copy of those, then we can start adding details to the base textures to fill out the wad.
Also, as far as the robot arms in the warehouse, I made a little mock-up of what I was thinking of, it's not skinned yet, but you get the idea...
Can't wait to see the first complete map!
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