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Topic: LCD Help! (Read 450 times)
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LCD Help!
« on: November 20, 2005, 09:08:12 PM »
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Okay guys, I need help. One of my aging Sony Trinitron CRTs finally blew on Friday, and it's time to start considering a replacement. The only way to go for me is an LCD, but I'm having a hard time finding one that meets all of my requirements. Here's the rundown:
- 19 inch is the size of choice, but not a complete necessity if I can't match the rest of the characteristics.
- DVI is a must. Dual input (DVI + VGA) is preferable, but it at least needs to be digital.
- Thin bezel. I am entirely used to dual monitor setups, especially on my Mac, and I'll be getting (at least) two of whatever screen I decide on (eventually I'll be getting a third screen for the PC too). They have to fit up next to each other relatively nicely. Of course, my current CRTs have a HUGE bezel, and I get by just fine with them, but I'd like to decrease the gap between the displays if I can.
- The casing needs to be predominantly silver. This might seem like a silly requirement, but my G4 tower is sliver and clear, and my XPC is exactly the same. Black screens would look out of place, and this is something I actually care about (now that it's my own money I'm spending instead of inheriting hand-me-downs). So think "brushed aluminum".
- Decent refresh rate, color reproduction, contrast, etc. These don't have to be obscenely great, and they don't even really need to be good enough for FPS gaming since the screens will be on my Mac, but I do occasionally watch DVDs on it, so even 20ms is probably going to be too slow.
- (One thing to keep in mind is that I'll eventually replace the CRT on the PC with an LCD as well, and I'd like very much for all three monitors to eventually match to some extent. When that time comes, the refresh rate will be important because it'll have to handle gaming fairly well.)
- Built-in USB hub would be a nice frill but not at all necessary.
- It would also be nice if the power transformer was inside the casing as well so I don't have to worry about two power bricks on the back of my desk, but this isn't an absolute necessity if the other qualities of the screen make up for it.
- Along the same lines, I don't need builtin speakers. Since these screens will be powering a single computer it would really silly to have 4 tiny speakers. Plus the Boston Accoustics set I have has served me incredibly well.
- Addendum: Must not be made by Dell. Sorry, religious reasons.
I would REALLY appreciate any feedback you all could provide in the way of recommendations for some decent LCDs. My price range is fairly flexible, but if possible I'd like to get a pair of screens for less than $900 USD to give you a reference. More than anything I really want to find a monitor that fits my needs, and if I have to save up for two of them, then I'm willing to do that so don't rule out a great screen just because it would blow this budget.
Thanks in advance all! 
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| « Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 06:08:46 AM by Porter » |
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2005, 09:13:51 PM »
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To give you a starting point, my current "best candidate" is the Samsung 940b.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2005, 09:52:54 PM »
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i use the benq t705 but not sure of the components you listed lol
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2005, 10:23:49 PM »
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Viewsonic VP191s?
Maybe? Tom says it ain't that bad.
You should just save yourself the trouble and buy whatever 19" Dell is peddling.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2005, 11:06:12 PM »
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That viewsonic looks good, but I have a samsung syncmaster 712n..with an 11 ms response time i believe. no complaints here..no 'ghosting' or 'tearing' to be found
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2005, 11:59:36 PM »
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Hi Porter. I just bought a new LCD for work. I got a Mitsubishi. Its not bad but I would warn anyone that this kind of LCD imparts a yellowish tinge at moderate viewing angles. I really like the Diamondcrystal coating that you can get with this screen. It gives the monitor a glass CRT feel and increases contrast. The downside being glare. Anyhow Mitsubishi is NEC in America. Link below.
If you can afford it I would also look into the Samsung 960BF. This was my first choice but it was a bit too expensive for me. It's of a suprising elegent design and the panel is excellent. It also seemed to have better color uniformity across a broader range of viewing angles.
Anyway I know that the NEC link is for a black monitor but in Japan you can get a silver one, maybe so in America? The Samsung is white but the design is very nice and again the panel is excellent.
Samsung 960BF 1
Samsung 960BF 2
NEC LCD1970GX
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| « Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 12:14:15 AM by Ryo-Ohki » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2005, 06:31:26 AM »
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| You should just save yourself the trouble and buy whatever 19" Dell is peddling. |
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See I knew you were going to say something like that and I still forgot to put that into my list. I've modified my original post.  
Hi Porter. I just bought a new LCD for work. I got a Mitsubishi. Its not bad but I would warn anyone that this kind of LCD imparts a yellowish tinge at moderate viewing angles. I really like the Diamondcrystal coating that you can get with this screen. It gives the monitor a glass CRT feel and increases contrast. The downside being glare. Anyhow Mitsubishi is NEC in America. Link below.
If you can afford it I would also look into the Samsung 960BF. This was my first choice but it was a bit too expensive for me. It's of a suprising elegent design and the panel is excellent. It also seemed to have better color uniformity across a broader range of viewing angles.
Anyway I know that the NEC link is for a black monitor but in Japan you can get a silver one, maybe so in America? The Samsung is white but the design is very nice and again the panel is excellent.
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Thanks for the input Ryo. I was waiting for you to chime in. I like the 960BF too, but like you said, it's a little on the expensive side (plus MWave doesn't have them in stock  ).
I've heard a lot about the new glossy coatings that a lot of manufacturers are putting on their panels. I'm not sure I like that yet. Probably the best thing to do is go down to Best Buy and just try a couple with the glossy coating out to get a feel for it.
I took a look at the ViewSonic too. I like the design, and the specs. I had read that review on Tom's before, and to my recollection I had ruled that monitor out for some reason that I can't find in the review now.  Probably the best part is that it's a little bit cheaper than the others that have been suggested so far. Another strong contender.
Anyway, thanks for all the great input guys! Please, if anyone else has suggestions for great monitors to get (or to stay away from) keep it coming!
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2005, 09:30:29 AM »
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- Addendum: Must not be made by Dell. Sorry, religious reasons.
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I felt the same way. Let me explain my choice for going with Dell when I bought my 2005fpw.
Dell makes quality displays. This is definetly contrairy to Dell's main business of making shoddy computers. The reasons for this are in the economics.
In corporate america, computers have been 'refreshed' every 2-3 years (maybe more like 3-4 nowadays). It is much better to buy a $500 computer every two years than a $1000 computer every four years. Companies know this. Dell knows this. Dell makes $500 computers and they clean up from compaines that make $1000 computers.
Monitors on the other hand last alot longer than 2-3 years. A good one will last your 10 years easy. I just threw away a 17" crt purchased in 1994 which cost a bundle at the time but never needed repairs and was still working the day I took it in for recycle. LCD's last longer. Ergonomics in the workplace are also a huge concern nowadays too. Good displays make sense. Dell knows this. Companies know this.
At a time when everybody is replacing their CRTs it is good business to be selling quality LCD's.
I have no regrets about my 2005fpw. It has zero dead pixels. The USB hub is great and the s-video and composite inputs are nice to have. And, I only paid a smidgen more than what a 19" would be (I did have to wait a couple months for it to go on sale).
Color coordination in the computer room? Sounds absurd to me. Just turn the lights down.
As far as refresh rate/contrast ratio, all the numbers are cooked by the manufactureres anyway to fool consumers. When they say 4ms, they are testing the optimal transition which is nowhere near a real-world value. I also read an article awhile ago on contrast ratio and that some 400:1 monitors had better contrast than 800:1 one since they were mostly made up number. 12ms == 83Hz which means any monitor you buy will be more than enough for games.
Personally, It doesnt seem worth it for me to pay extra money for a 19" over a 17" when you are getting the same native resolution. It makes more sense to me to jump to a 21" and get the 1600x1200 which gives you 46% more real estate.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2005, 01:35:50 PM »
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Excellent arguments all around Terraji, and to be completely honest, I agree with you. The Dell LCDs do seem to be very popular, very capable displays. If I were using the screen for anything but my own personal machines, I would very probably go with Dell.
This case is different though. When I said "religious reasons" I was being tongue-in-cheek, but in truth it's not too far off base. I just can't bring myself to be looking at my Mac's Desktop and have a Dell logo branded on the base of the display. That's my own failing to be sure, but there it is.
I'm totally down with the specs nonsense too. I don't pay attention to the stats on the box, but to the numbers produced by reviews from places like Tom's Hardware. The tests those guys do help normalize the numbers across the entire board, so you can at least do comparative shopping.
I know the color coordination thing seems silly (I thought it was silly too when Ryo was being stubborn about it), but I don't have a "computer room," I have a living room, and it does indeed make a difference how my desk looks since everyone I know has to spend so much time there. I don't make nearly as much out of it as others do though-- I just want something that's gonna match reasonably well. (If I really was THAT uptight about it, I wouldn't be posting here because I would have mandated that the monitors be Apple-made!)
As for the native resolution argument, I agree with you, but I am looking at two HP LCDs here in front of me at work: one a 19 inch and one a 17 inch. Both are running at 1280x1024, but I definitely like the 19 inch better. Just personal preference I guess. Must be better for my bad eyes or something...
Again, thanks for the great comments and suggestions!
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| « Last Edit: November 21, 2005, 01:39:24 PM by Porter » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2005, 01:50:21 PM »
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You knew I'd say it, because I suggested it before.
Remember, only Nixon could go to China.
P.S: Where ever you end up buying them from, make sure they don't screw you with their dead pixel return policy.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2005, 03:35:56 PM »
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| Remember, only Nixon could go to China. |
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I don't get the reference. I must not have studied my history as well as you.
P.S: Where ever you end up buying them from, make sure they don't screw you with their dead pixel return policy.
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Yeah that's the part of the whole deal that worries me the most. NewEgg's policy is 8 pixels, straight from Samsung is 10, and mWave is 7. Personally I feel that ANY dead pixels constitutes a defective product, but I doubt I'll find a reseller that agrees with me.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2005, 04:37:10 PM »
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The dell logo is quite bletch and the apple monitors do look way sexier. The monitors are defenetly one area where Apple needs to slash their Apple tax. Unfortunately I am not made of money and went Dell, and in the long run I think I will be better off with the extra features anyway.
I also learned something new today which made me happy about my Dell:
The XBOX 360 has VGA out. If I get the urge sometime in the future to buy one, it can find a place on my computer desk and I can enjoy high-def widescreen without spending 4k on a HDTV.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2005, 07:21:15 PM »
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| Remember, only Nixon could go to China. |
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I don't get the reference. I must not have studied my history as well as you.
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I typed up a response, but I guess it never got posted. I'll try again later.
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2005FPW $334 USD shipped!
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2005, 09:36:01 AM »
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http://digg.com/deals/DELL_UltraSharp_2005FPW_-_Lowest_Price_Ever_-_$334_Shipped
If I lived in the US, I'd buy another one.
Tip: act now it won't last.
EDIT: The $100 coupon was cancelled. As expected since the Internet is seemingly abuzz over this. You can get it for $434 still though.
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| « Last Edit: November 29, 2005, 10:00:55 AM by Terraji » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 12:40:23 PM »
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Oh wow, talk about a crisis of faith!
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 06:14:26 PM »
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I realize that I've flogged this horse well past death, but I have one more picture to share.
It comes courtesy of the Screen Spanning Doctor, the VGA input, and the ajustable height on the 2005FPW.
How many other monitors have these flexibilities? Certainly not the ACD.
Not buying this display could be presented as compelling evidence for being a communist.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2005, 09:11:40 PM »
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Well count me among the free and proud capitalists then!
The $100-off coupon had already expired (too many uses) by the time I checked the Dell page out, but I still couldn't beat $434 for a quality 20 inch screen with any of the 19 inchers I've been looking at, so I put my order in anyway. Came to a grand total of $923 and change. (There goes the Christmas bonus! ) I expect my two new LCDs to be here middle of next week. I guess I'll have to Dremmel off the Dell logo or cover it with duct tape or something.
Anyway, thanks for the wicked awesome heads up Terraji! +10 karma for you. 
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2005, 09:28:45 PM »
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And +100 Karma for Yuna for pushing the submit button
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2005, 10:13:52 PM »
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Well it seems Nixon made it to China after all. Who would have thought?
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 09:06:48 AM »
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Awesome to hear
I think you will have a hard time regretting that one.
The extra 35% real estate really makes a difference.
Post some pics once you get those suckers set up!
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2005, 10:26:13 AM »
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And +100 Karma for Yuna for pushing the submit button
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She really did. I was wavering at the checkout page with all my information entered, and she came over and clicked my mouse. What a motivator she is!
Post some pics once you get those suckers set up!
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I will, though I admit that now I'm worried about fitting two of them plus the huge honking 17 inch Sony CRT (for my PC) on my desk.
I need a couple VESA arm mounts is what I need.
I hate when you buy things that require you to go out and buy more things.
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| « Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 10:29:56 AM by Porter » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2005, 04:09:33 PM »
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The monitors shipped. I'd be more excited if UPS wasn't claiming that it's going to take 8 days to get them from Nashville to Chicago. 
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2005, 04:16:14 PM »
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I ordered mine on Oct 20th, it shipped on the Oct 21st and arrived on the 26th.
I would expect yours by Tuesday. Wednesday at the latest.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2005, 04:18:53 PM »
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The monitors shipped. I'd be more excited if UPS wasn't claiming that it's going to take 8 days to get them from Nashville to Chicago.
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Did you read the shipping report on what I sent you? It says it arrived, but it looks like it had a pretty strange trip.
I'd be worried about your monitors.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2005, 04:27:40 PM »
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| Did you read the shipping report on what I sent you? It says it arrived, but it looks like it had a pretty strange trip. |
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Yurei told me it arrived today actually, but I haven't been tracking it. Yuna still doesn't know anything about it other than "something came for her" today, so SHHH!
I also have a question for Terraji: I was looking to see what kind of cables and accessories came with the monitors, but Dell doesn't have any of that information listed on the website (tsk tsk). Basically I'd like to know "What's In The Box" so I know if I'm gonna have to go get extra DVI or VGA cables. Can you help me out?
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2005, 04:30:03 PM »
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| Did you read the shipping report on what I sent you? It says it arrived, but it looks like it had a pretty strange trip. |
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Yurei told me it arrived today actually, but I haven't been tracking it. Yuna still doesn't know anything about it other than "something came for her" today, so SHHH!
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It's worth a gander, I don't think UPS believes the ZIP code you gave them is correct.
I also have a question for Terraji: I was looking to see what kind of cables and accessories came with the monitors, but Dell doesn't have any of that information listed on the website (tsk tsk). Basically I'd like to know "What's In The Box" so I know if I'm gonna have to go get extra DVI or VGA cables. Can you help me out?
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My smaller Dell 17" came with a DVI cable.
Edit: Firefox and smilies go together like drywall and tuna fish.
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| « Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 04:31:35 PM by Surgeon General » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2005, 04:33:43 PM »
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I just refreshed the tracking page. UPS has "rescheduled" my delivery date to December 5th. They must have suddenly realized their trucks had wheels.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2005, 05:02:30 PM »
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Out of memory it came with:
1) dvi cable
2) vga cable
3) power cable (duh)
4) usb cable for the built-in hub
4) a driver CD and manual.
| Yurei told me it arrived today actually, but I haven't been tracking it. |
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Methinks your leg is getting pulled.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2005, 06:16:29 PM »
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| Yurei told me it arrived today actually, but I haven't been tracking it. |
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Methinks your leg is getting pulled.
He was referencing a different package in that sentence. He was talking about the graphics card SG sent me
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2005, 08:16:14 PM »
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1) dvi cable
2) vga cable
3) power cable (duh)
4) usb cable for the built-in hub
4) a driver CD and manual.
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Ah good. Thanks.
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2005, 12:16:02 PM »
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Argh. So the LCDs went from Nashville on Thursday to Hodgkins, IL today.
Take a look at how close the monitors are to me! 29.3 miles! 52 minutes! And UPS expects to deliver them on Tuesday! They're going to go from the Hodgkins hub to Aurora today or tomorrow, and they'll sit there until the delivery truck loads them to bring them to me on Tuesday. I could just DRIVE over there in an hour and pick it up. UPS sucks. 
PS: I'm just griping for the sake of griping-- I'm not really concerned about it.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2005, 01:27:48 PM »
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Argh. So the LCDs went from Nashville on Thursday to Hodgkins, IL today.
Take a look at how close the monitors are to me! 29.3 miles! 52 minutes! And UPS expects to deliver them on Tuesday! They're going to go from the Hodgkins hub to Aurora today or tomorrow, and they'll sit there until the delivery truck loads them to bring them to me on Tuesday. I could just DRIVE over there in an hour and pick it up. UPS sucks.
PS: I'm just griping for the sake of griping-- I'm not really concerned about it.
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Go and pick them up then.
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2005, 02:04:41 PM »
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They won't let you since there's no way for you to prove you're the one that they're ultimately supposed to deliver to. They only let you go in and pick a package up if they've already tried to deliver once already. They leave that "we missed you" ticket on your door, and that has a reference number that you need to show the people at the warehouse to prove you are the one they tried to deliver to. So I'm out of luck till next week I guess. 
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2005, 02:17:32 PM »
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They won't let you since there's no way for you to prove you're the one that they're ultimately supposed to deliver to. They only let you go in and pick a package up if they've already tried to deliver once already. They leave that "we missed you" ticket on your door, and that has a reference number that you need to show the people at the warehouse to prove you are the one they tried to deliver to. So I'm out of luck till next week I guess.
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I doubt it would be hard to prove with a valid, up-to-date driver's license, but I'm guessing you've tried before? I know I've heard stories about people going and picking up their guitars from a UPS warehouse because they didn't want them to be left outdoors (I wouldn't either).
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2005, 02:53:27 PM »
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Well, they've moved to Addison already, so they're halfway there. It's next to impossible that they'd get loaded on a delivery truck today still though, so here's hoping for Monday!
I doubt it would be hard to prove with a valid, up-to-date driver's license, but I'm guessing you've tried before? I know I've heard stories about people going and picking up their guitars from a UPS warehouse because they didn't want them to be left outdoors (I wouldn't either).
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It is experience, unfortunately. The first iPod we got for PK last Christmas was either delivered to the wrong house or stolen off the front step (depending on which UPS rep you ask) because UPS ignored the "Signature MANDATORY" requirement. It took another 7 weeks to get a replacement out of Apple and UPS (typical pass-the-blame scenario). I don't trust those guys at all, and I'd almost rather go pick stuff up than let them try to deliver it, but it's pretty pointless to try to convince them of it. They just follow what their computer screens tell them.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2005, 03:32:34 PM »
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Well, they've moved to Addison already, so they're halfway there. It's next to impossible that they'd get loaded on a delivery truck today still though, so here's hoping for Monday!
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Is St. Charles the golf course mecca of the world? Or is google maps lying?
It is experience, unfortunately. The first iPod we got for PK last Christmas was either delivered to the wrong house or stolen off the front step (depending on which UPS rep you ask) because UPS ignored the "Signature MANDATORY" requirement. It took another 7 weeks to get a replacement out of Apple and UPS (typical pass-the-blame scenario). I don't trust those guys at all, and I'd almost rather go pick stuff up than let them try to deliver it, but it's pretty pointless to try to convince them of it. They just follow what their computer screens tell them.
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That's typical UPS for you. Hopefully, you won't get screwed with your monitors.
Edit: Hooray for preview.
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| « Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 03:33:37 PM by Surgeon General » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2005, 04:23:30 PM »
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Is St. Charles the golf course mecca of the world? Or is google maps lying?
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Wow, I never even thought about that! Yes, they are indeed all real golf courses. None of them have any notoriety that I know about though. In fact, Settlers' Hill is a landfill that they covered in astroturf and turned into a course. It's not the most pleasant smell when you're trying to put, or so I'm told.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2005, 05:21:18 PM »
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this gives me an idea,
we should start a frappr for CSR
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| « Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 05:23:44 PM by Terraji » |
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2005, 09:10:20 AM »
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Outstanding idea!
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2005, 03:48:34 PM »
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Argh. So the LCDs went from Nashville on Thursday to Hodgkins, IL today.
Take a look at how close the monitors are to me! 29.3 miles! 52 minutes! And UPS expects to deliver them on Tuesday
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Big Brown hooking you up today?
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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Re:LCD Help!
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2005, 04:42:06 PM »
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Big Brown hooking you up today?
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Actually they showed up Monday in the afternoon. All that complaining I did for nothing!
They look darn nice on my desk (other than the tinier-than-I-thought-they-would-be Dell logos), but the biggest problem I'm having with them is losing my mouse cursor on a screen that is 3360x1060! Truth be told, they actually stick off the end of my desk a bit. I'll post some pics later after I've had a chance to clean my desk up, get everything plugged in, and gotten yurei to snap some shots.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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