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Topic: Canadian Election! (Read 154 times)
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Terraji
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Canadian Election!
« on: January 24, 2006, 09:23:24 AM »
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I, for one, welcome our new Conservative overlords!
Actually I voted for the socialists. But today is a significant day for Canadian politics if anyone cares.
It is only a minority government with only 124 seats out of 308, so they can't actually pass laws without another party in agreement and will probably collapse within a year.
A fun fact: The ruling party is named The Conservative Party of Canada. Not so long ago they were called The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada --- no joke. Scary!
Time for me to get ready for privatized healthcare and martial law. 
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animal sex
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2006, 11:37:23 AM »
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democracy at its best
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Deuce
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2006, 01:35:15 PM »
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as a bush supporter, i laugh at this.
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Surgeon General
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2006, 02:08:48 PM »
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I wouldn't worry...same shit different pile.
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
Source blows.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 08:07:38 PM »
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What's wrong with privatized healthcare?
Sure beats the system you've got in place.
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I once beat Drizzt Do'Urden at thumb wrestling.
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Terraji
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2006, 08:27:04 PM »
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What's wrong with privatized healthcare?
Sure beats the system you've got in place.
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Porter
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 07:19:39 AM »
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What's wrong with privatized healthcare?
Sure beats the system you've got in place.
slight
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I'm not sure I see how. Even assuming you can afford insurance, your out of pocket bills are usually bank-busting. I had an infection thing in my chest back in October. A doctor's visit, blood work, and a quick hospital visit for a chest x-ray cost me more than a grand out of my own pocket. I'm talking about after insurance was kind enough to say none of it was covered.
You know what the doc told me? "It'll clear itself up in a couple days." I spent a thousand dollars for a guy to tell me that. How is that at all a good system?
I'm not claiming to know the details of the Canadian system, or even profess that it's better or worse than any other system. All I'm saying is that while ours may have its advantages, it sure is flawed in a lot of fundamental ways.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 09:19:59 AM »
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From some quick wikipedia-ing , the per capita spending of the US on healthcare is $2168 and the individual spends $2719. In Canada, the numbers are $1533 and $630 respectively. Life expectancy is 79.8 in Canada and 77.3 in the US.
A good quote from the article: "If the poorest twenty percent of Americans were excluded from health statistics, Canadian and American life expectancy and infant mortality rates would be almost identical."
Sounds to me like the affulent are getting pumped for coin and the poor are getting left behind.
Furthermore, we are not constantly bombarded with marketing people trying to give us medical advice via ads on television and sides of buses. This happens to be my favorite aspect of our system. If you have ever had the chance to compare Canadian TV with American TV, you'd know what I am talking about.
I really would like to hear the counter-argument, if it exists.
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Surgeon General
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2006, 11:28:46 AM »
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Furthermore, we are not constantly bombarded with marketing people trying to give us medical advice via ads on television and sides of buses. This happens to be my favorite aspect of our system. If you have ever had the chance to compare Canadian TV with American TV, you'd know what I am talking about.
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I'd agree with you on that one. The whole point of going to a doctor is for him to tell you what you need to get better, not vice versa.
I really would like to hear the counter-argument, if it exists.
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While I can't really comment on the situation up north there, I have heard about socialized healthcare in Italy. Between the fluent Italian girl who spends quite a bit of time there and my Italian teacher who lived there in the past for many years, both said that it is terrible. The teacher tells this one story about how her friend's uncle had to have brain surgey done and after the procedure was finished, there was no bed for the guy. Not until a day or two later did the guy finally get a room....in the mental paitent ward. Needless to say, both the girl and the teacher stick to the private sector when in Italy.
While my story is anecdotal and involves a different country, I can imagine you guys suffer long wait times for procedures too. As long as it gets done before serious and permanent damage is done, I don't think people mind that much.
The only counter argument I can think of would be from the doctor's prespective. I can't imagine Canadian doctors make as much money as their American counter parts. In fact, I'd wager that the best ones probably cross the border and set up shop here where they can charge more.
I wonder if people still become doctors because they like helping people and saving lives....
Though I only skimmed your wikipedia article, I saw medical malpractice mentioned. Canada actually has some sense regarding pain and suffering as a result of malpractice, unlike the US where it is absolutely ridiculous. Medical malpractice isn't always about doctors making mistakes, but rather doctors not being able to produce the desired outcome. My dad worked for a company that insured hospitals and doctors (among other things) for a long time. The stories he tells about parents getting millions for pain and suffering are outrageous. A jury award a woman a couple mill after a doctor had to amputate her baby's leg to save its life because it had been sitting in a trash can for three days.
I've had my fun.
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
Source blows.
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Deuce
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2006, 06:25:31 PM »
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wikipedia =/= reliable source
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Surgeon General
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2006, 07:04:41 PM »
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wikipedia =/= reliable source
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Not that I'd use wikipedia (or anything else for that matter) as a lone source on anything of importance, but I would say it's as reliable or better than most other references. It's just as prone to bias or outdated as any other resource, but you would think because so many people have access to the entries and the ability to add their own knowledge and perspective that both would be minimized?
Deuce =/= reliable source? 
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
Source blows.
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Terraji
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2006, 07:27:14 PM »
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I would think that since this is a controversial debate and numbers are easy to prove or disprove that they would be roughly correct.
The WHO 2005 annual report puts the Canadian life expectancy at 80 and the US at 77.
Quick googling gave some news sites that say canada spent $130 billion on healthcare in 2004, the US spent $1.9 trillion in the same year
$130B / 32.4 Million people = $4012.34 CAD per capita
$1.9Trillion / 299.5 Million people = $6343 USD per capita
Not sure how the numbers break down between state and personal spending, but the gist is exactly the same.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Canadian Election!
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2006, 12:24:22 PM »
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Furthermore, we are not constantly bombarded with marketing people trying to give us medical advice via ads on television and sides of buses. This happens to be my favorite aspect of our system. If you have ever had the chance to compare Canadian TV with American TV, you'd know what I am talking about.
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I'd agree with you on that one. The whole point of going to a doctor is for him to tell you what you need to get better, not vice versa.
I really would like to hear the counter-argument, if it exists.
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While I can't really comment on the situation up north there, I have heard about socialized healthcare in Italy. Between the fluent Italian girl who spends quite a bit of time there and my Italian teacher who lived there in the past for many years, both said that it is terrible. The teacher tells this one story about how her friend's uncle had to have brain surgey done and after the procedure was finished, there was no bed for the guy. Not until a day or two later did the guy finally get a room....in the mental paitent ward. Needless to say, both the girl and the teacher stick to the private sector when in Italy.
While my story is anecdotal and involves a different country, I can imagine you guys suffer long wait times for procedures too. As long as it gets done before serious and permanent damage is done, I don't think people mind that much.
The only counter argument I can think of would be from the doctor's prespective. I can't imagine Canadian doctors make as much money as their American counter parts. In fact, I'd wager that the best ones probably cross the border and set up shop here where they can charge more.
I wonder if people still become doctors because they like helping people and saving lives....
Though I only skimmed your wikipedia article, I saw medical malpractice mentioned. Canada actually has some sense regarding pain and suffering as a result of malpractice, unlike the US where it is absolutely ridiculous. Medical malpractice isn't always about doctors making mistakes, but rather doctors not being able to produce the desired outcome. My dad worked for a company that insured hospitals and doctors (among other things) for a long time. The stories he tells about parents getting millions for pain and suffering are outrageous. A jury award a woman a couple mill after a doctor had to amputate her baby's leg to save its life because it had been sitting in a trash can for three days.
I've had my fun.
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Very good point. Since when has turing something into a giant beaurocricy solved anything. Someone want to point me at a giant government run program that DOES work?
Medical malpractice and the associated costs are a large part of the issue. The more doctors pay in expenses, the more WE pay. What is good for them becomes good for us, provided market forces are allowed to work properly. If the US ever did want to go the route of social medicine, the first thing we have to do is CAP the cost of procedures, and hence cap the amount of money that a doctor is allowed to make. In order to do this, you have to cut THEIR costs as well, and this means totally redoing the current malpractice litigation system (which will probably never happen as long as we keep electing lawyers to congress).
Personally, having the government involved in my health care decisions scares me to death. Why is it the same people who are up in arms over the so called 'domestic spying scandal' are also the ones who want to put the government in charge of their healthcare. Both mean big government sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. Do you really want the government having total access to all of your medical records, and having some beaurocricy in charge of your health and well being?
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I once beat Drizzt Do'Urden at thumb wrestling.
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