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Guardian_Tenshi
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Windows Vista
« on: March 09, 2006, 11:42:24 AM »
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Since I know this forum usually goes crazy as soon as the whole mac vs. windows thing goes up, I thought I'd throw this out here...
I'll grant you Porter has been working pretty hard to convert me completely to mac, and to his defense, I'm using my PC less and less, but has ANYONE heard anything that makes them think Vista would even be worth buying? I mean if the choice comes down to paying more for a new system to run a Windows system that still has alot of viruses, and other types of malware versus buying a new Mac, I'm leaning towards a Mac. If this article:
http://www.pro-networks.org/main/index_LH.php
which claims that Vista will eat 800MB of ram WHEN IDLE, and will install in about 7GB of harddrive space, while I can install and RUN X in in about 2.5GB of HDD space, and my weak little 640MB of ram runs even photoshop and fireworks with only a little bit of slowing. With Intel now making some dual core macs (even though brian doesn't like the name "MacBook"), doesn't it seem like i'm getting more bang for my buck?
Poking around that same website, I see a news post that even IBM is even stearing away from Windows now, saying that their German Desktops are now going to Linux? did I read that right?
Anyway, was just wondering if anyone knew something I didn't.
Tenshi
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Surgeon General
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2006, 01:51:54 PM »
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Windows Vista? 
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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yurei
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2006, 03:12:25 PM »
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Well, I think in 2010 when Vista is actually released, 800MB of RAM will be nothing, but I cant really see that far into the future 
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2006, 03:50:35 PM »
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Quite a few of the announced "next-gen" PC games will be Vista only, due apparently, to its superior graphics performance and ease of programming. What will eventually compel us all to switch will be our individual "Half-Life 3"s: meaning that killer game that looks too good NOT to buy. Personally, I don't plan on upgrading my PC for nuthin' for a long time. None of the games I play need more than what I have, and I haven't been impressed with a new PC title since HL2 came out (and you all remember how long it took to turn my opinion of that around!)
Unless I get a new PC and Vista for free, I'm perfectly happy where I'm at. I haven't even hooked my PC back up yet since the move! 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2006, 06:25:13 PM »
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Vista looks to me like just the same old pig with a new layer of makeup. All the previews and footage of the beta I have seen confirms that Windows is as bitchy and as annoying as ever.
Gaming is the only reason to have a windows machine, and with Microsoft forcing a hardware, and software upgrade, that is looking less apealling ($$$ ==  ). I am strongly considering moving all my gaming to the consoles, since in buying a 360, Microsoft will actually be losing money.
My next set of upgraded hardware will probably be an iMac which is amazing for doing all the regular-joe stuff like managing music, video, photos and surfing the web (this will mostly be for the GF who doesn't always mix well with my Linux obsession).
Games -> Consoles
Regular stuff -> Mac
Work + geeking out -> Linux
Feeling sorry for the rest of humanity -> Windows Vista
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 01:21:07 AM »
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Isn't part of the Vista push in the first place because Microsoft claims to only support an OS for 5 years from it's initial release date, and since they've already had to extend that on 2k, they wanted to avoid supporting XP for longer then 5 years? Figuring that XP came out maybe 2002 and it's 2006 now...? Microsoft seems to be in danger of not officially supporting any of their operating systems by their official policy. Games aside, I don't think you could talk me into another PC right now...
Tenshi
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2006, 10:15:24 AM »
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If you don't already, you all should keep an eye on www.penny-arcade.com. Gabe and Tycho both are become Mac-converts, and as accomplished gamers/writers with a large audience it's great to read about their experiences.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 12:36:29 PM »
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If you don't already, you all should keep an eye on www.penny-arcade.com. Gabe and Tycho both are become Mac-converts, and as accomplished gamers/writers with a large audience it's great to read about their experiences.
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The comics from PA are golden many of the recent mac ones have spend time as my desktop background, but I find the blog postings rambling and useless.
It is truly the dawn of the golden age for Apple. They have the superior product, and the only thing holding people back is the fear of learning something new. The more mainstream attention Apple gets, the closer they get to cracking the marketshare problem.
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2006, 12:58:04 PM »
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For me it's got very little to do with market share. Apple could stay at 5% for all I care, but what I'd really love to see change (and this is why the PA guys overjoy me so much) is all of the myths and misconceptions about the Mac. I want people to understand that the Mac is a legitimate (and in many cases, superior) computing platform that you don't need to be a graphic designer in order to appreciate. Nobody criticizes you for choosing to run linux, and the only people that criticize Windows users are over-enthusiastic Mac zealots (whom I despise, for the record: they're the ones that give all Mac users a bad image), but just about anybody will give you a funny look if you tell them you use a Mac. It should be that as long as you've picked the platform that gets the most done for you, nobody complains about it. I just want that equality extended to the Mac as much as it is to anything else, and I think that's slowly happening.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 02:29:45 PM »
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Having a higher marketshare would solve the problem of not having any games available for the Mac. The truth is that 90% of the market will not pay $1500 dollars for a computer which will not play games even though it is a better longterm investment than buying $700 dell + crap lcd combo.
Most importantly, in my mind, a bigger marketshare would good for consumers in general by making Microsoft try to be competitive for once.
Thankfully 90% of the market will pay $1500+ for a laptop which doesn't play games. By my estimates, in the Engineering faculty at my university, about 30% of the laptops I see are Apple and growing steadily. I think you will see tons of new switchers once the Intel iBooks/MacBooks come out, which they definitely will before the end of the summer.
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2006, 04:29:25 PM »
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I would argue for Apple keeping a smaller market share for the same reason you argued it would help Microsoft. If Apple increasing its share is going to put pressure on Microsoft to innovate, it must conversely remove some pressure from Apple to do the same. Given the choice, I would much rather Apple continue to have the motivation to create the best and brightest, and let Microsoft stagnate. I'm not saying Apple wouldn't continue to lead the industry if it had a 40% market share, but it wouldn't have as much incentive to do so, and it would have a much larger investment to protect, just like MS does now. The last thing I would want to see is for the roles of the two to reverse.
As for getting games to come to the Mac, I doubt even a 50/50 market share would be impetus enough for most publishers. The cost of producing a game is so damn high already, and that's just for one platform. The switch to Intel should help, but my gut says it won't help enough. The thing that I don't understand is that even with a smaller market share, the Mac is so much easier to develop for as a platform. Sound hardware (or at least the API interface to it) is universal among all Mac models, meaning development is easier. Same goes for graphics hardware. Sure Apple uses both ATI and Nvidia cards, but the drivers are Apple-supplied, guaranteeing a single machine-type installed base on the Mac side. In other words, you write a game for the Mac, and it'll work on every Mac made since 1999 without question. That's gotta be darn appealing-- or it probably would, if 90% of the users out there had Macs.
I think the biggest deterrent to Mac-game development though is the same thing that it was 3 years ago: DirectX. If Microsoft had given in and settled on OpenGL, the world would be a much more compatible place for games to live in, but the same thing that prevents HL2 from ever coming to the Mac applies to a lot of other games too: being DirectX only.
If you were to kill DirectX and boost Apple's market share, those two things combined with Intel-based Macs might be enough to sway the biggest developers, but I think it would still take a miracle even with those completely idyllic circumstances.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2006, 06:04:24 PM »
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I certainly, would not trade one monopoly for another. Apple has shown to be just as cut-throat as Microsoft with some of their practices. I see what you are saying though; A GM and a Ford is a lot less exciting than a GM and a BMW. My point is that the world in general would be much better off without the Microsoft death-grip, and Apple is the only company with a chance to break it. I think that in Steve Jobs' mind, this is his #1 goal.
I strongly doubt the point that with a higher market share, there would still be no games developed for the Mac. There is a huge market of mature casual gamers (a group well-represented in CSR by my estimate) who value games with substance over the twitchy EA-style games. The Mac is, and will continue to be, an execellent platform for RPG's, MMORPG's, adventure, and strategy games. These are the same games which don't suit consoles very well. If the installed base gets to be more than 15-20% I can forsee some games being developed primarily for the mac, and then ported to other platforms.
If you are targeting the casual gamer with mid-to-low end hardware, developing for a stable platform like a Mac probably looks a lot more appealing than developing for a zoo of cheap Dell hardware.
The high-end market is not a loss either. There are still plenty of games being developed for OpenGL. OpenGL and DirectX have been battling back and forth for a decade, and there is no reason to give up on OpenGL. It carries with it the strength of the open-source model which is of high benefit to game engine development. This is why id Software uses it. They make their money by having a better engine than everyone else. They are able to do that by not using the same tools as everyone else, and going with what is most flexible.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2006, 06:48:53 PM »
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Bah!!!! Windoze Vi$ta... BLAH!!! PTOOEY!!!
I'm licking my lips in anticipation of Xgl being incorporated into linux distros. What is Xgl, you ask? Well, it's an openGL desktop (runs onto of the X-windows system) contributed to the open source community by Novell. How cool is it? Well... watch the video:
http://www.google.com/search?q=xgl-demo1.xvid
and then download Kororaa and try it yourself. Kororaa is a live (i.e. runs completely off of a CD) linux distro that includes Xgl. Now note that this is experimental alpha-level software and may not work perfectly on your PC (although it worked fine on my Athlon 1700 w/ 512 MB and GeForce fx5700), but if it does, be prepared to drool. I returned to my regular old KDE desktop and for the first time it felt, well, plain and ordinary. My WinXP desktop at work felt like going back in time to win95.
Windows Vista.... Blah!!! PTOOEY!!! BILL GATES, I BITE MY THUMB IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!!!!
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2006, 09:07:27 AM »
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Thanks for the link and reminding me to try Xgl. Hopefully i'll have time tonight to burn the ISO. The live-cd is the way to go since I didn't fancy messing up my Gentoo install to try this.
What I am interested in is whether the eye candy is actually helpful, or just decorative. OS X does the eye candy right by letting it actually be functional and helpful (expose + genie effect + window shadows).
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Surgeon General
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2006, 01:43:48 PM »
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The rotating desktops is cool. Would be an awesome way to hide stuff if your boss strolled by.
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2006, 08:22:21 PM »
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My comments are exactly in line with Terraji's. 90% of everything in that video you've been able to do on a Mac for 3 years now. Xgl is mostly MOSTLY just copying Apple. In the couple of areas where they're breaking new ground, such as the "malleable windows" that act like rubber, I think they've created some nifty things to watch and play with, but where's the usefulness? Sure it looks cool, but unless it lets me work faster (like Expose does!), then it's nothing more than a parlor trick.
By the same token, this kind of innovation helps make new advances in HCI possible. If these guys come up with something that proves to be truly useful, you can bet it's gonna end up in Mac OS X v10.6 or .7!
The other big upshot to this is that even if linux is only "catching up to" the Mac, it's also being placed well ahead of Microsoft (at least until Vista ships), and everyone being ahead of Redmond is always a Good ThingTM. Now if only we could get a distro that can actually do a Desktop environment well! Gentoo and Unbuntu are getting close, but nothing's there yet, proven by the fact that you can't buy a Dell with linux yet. When that happens, Linux will finally have become a 1st-rate platform.
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| « Last Edit: March 15, 2006, 08:23:58 PM by Porter » |
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2006, 10:52:50 PM »
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Posting from within Kororra....
It certainly is impressive visually, especially the bouncy windows. The rotating cube desktop switching is approximately the same as in OS X with Desktop Manager, just a lot smoother due to the mad graphics acceleration. The emphasis is definitely on the 'gee-whiz' over the usability, and it doesn't offer anything I haven't seen before.
I can't seem to find a way to switch the resolution higher than 1024x768, but I am not going to complain. This is 100% alpha software, and by no stretch of the imagination is Linux beating Redmond on the eye candy.
Windows is garbage in my mind because it is not respectful to the user. When running Windows, the damn computer thinks it knows what you want to do better than you do and will fight you all the way. If you want to tweak setting, they are buried in one of 6 different tabs hidden behind nonsensical buttons on other tabs. OS X completely owns XP and Vista in these aspects, the computer just works.
Linux is for those who want an OS that respects their intelligence and does exactly what you tell it to do with zero bitching. You just turn it on, and it is there exactly how you left it, solid as a rock. It also lets you tweak every last aspect to your very specific liking. As a result, I will always be most productive in Linux and eye candy is not going to change that. Besides, Just because it doesn't have 3D effects, does not mean that it is suddenly ugly.
To slightly correct what Porter just added, Gentoo is terrible for an out-of the box pleasant desktop experience. It is for the obsessive-compulsive type like me who enjoys building the system from the ground up exactly the way they want it. Ubuntu is the frontrunner for the Linux that you can give to your grandmother. SUSE and Red Hat are two others that work nicely out of the box.
If you are feeling adventurous in your computing, I would recommend to anyone to give Ubuntu a whirl, but stay away from Gentoo until you cut your teeth a bit.
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2006, 09:05:28 AM »
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Yeah I had forgotten about that "build-from-the-ground-up" approach in Gentoo. I was working mainly off of my memory of the LiveCD, which represents how easy to use a *normal* installation should be. If it were as easy as popping the install CD in and clicking some radio buttons to answer install choices (like OS X), they'd have a winner distro with their desktop env. That's really the only part keeping it from being on par with Ubuntu.
Getting back to something Terr said a while ago in this thread about Penny Arcade's blog posts being... "rambling and useless" was the phrase...
| The comics from PA are golden many of the recent mac ones have spend time as my desktop background, but I find the blog postings rambling and useless. |
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I'm not sure if that's at all a fair perception. Yurei feels the same as Terraji does, but I've argued with him in the past that he has't given them a chance. The other possibility is that he (and you) has no investment in the topics they normally post about, but in that case their posts should still be described as "irrelevant" and not "useless". It would be no different than me saying the articles on wallstreetjournal.com are completely worthless simply because I'm not a stock broker or investor. The articles aren't worthless (actually I wouldn't even pretend to judge their worthiness without being an expert in the field!), they just hold no value to me. Big difference there.
In the case of Penny Arcade, it took a while even for me to warm even the comics, but the meat is really in the posts. I find the comics are twice as funny if you've read the day's post first. On top of that, they're commentary on the game industry (and life in general) is always very intelligent and thoughtfully related. The fact that they use somewhat eclectic terminology at points shouldn't take anything away from that evaluation.
Terraji, I would highly recommend giving the posts another chance, but that's with the caveat that you have to have some interest in intelligent conversation about video games. I grew up with Nintendo and Sega and Sony, and would always characterize myself as a "gamer." That might be the key to enjoying the PA posts, but all restrictions aside I've found them to be some of the best reading I do on the 'net each day.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Terraji
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2006, 11:30:46 AM »
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Though I am sure you did not intend any offence, but I too consider myself a gamer, which is a point I would feel silly defending. I have my own taste in games, but I seriously don't care to hear some dude ramble on about some gameplay element of a particular game which I don't particularily care about. Maybe that makes me less "hardcore" but I think it is a fair assessment that there are alot of mediocre games out there, and I don't have nearly enough time to care about everything.
There just isn't enough content in the postings to keep me interested. Perhaps there is some news content in there, but I find if there is something worthwhile that makes it into a comic, be sure that it has already been on Digg or Slashdot a day or two earlier. Basically, this is just a reflection of my opinion that blogs have their place, but generally they are way overrated.
Don't get me wrong, Penny Arcade is one of about a half-dozen webcomics I read, and I would judge it the best in both artwork and content. I consider myself a very internet literate person and I keep up to date on all topics discussed by Penny Arcade. What makes it so good is it's subtle references to current events which are genuinely hilarious. Sure, some of them I don't get, but if a comedian isn't funny, you don't read his blog to get the explanation, you just don't laugh and move on.
I also have one beef with this Child's Play thing that I need to get off my chest. If you have some old gaming harware and games that you don't use, by all means, give it to sick kids. But if you are going to be writing cheques, how about giving it to some organization which has the goal of making sick kids not sick?
On a positive note, here is my favorite PA comic that is actually related to this thread:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/12
I think in the latest release of Gentoo, 2006.0, there is a GUI installer. which I haven't gotten to play with. While cool, it breaks from the philosophy of Gentoo. Since you get to customize absolutly everything, wanting to run a system just as a server and with no graphical front-end valid choice. If you have a preference for one window manager over another, all are equally easy to get and you are not constrained in any way.
The magic of Gentoo it is that once you have built and configured every element yourself, you have knowledge of every aspect of the system, and can do anything you want with it. Kinda like building a hot rod yourself than buying a car stock, the possiblilties become endless.
One thing that non-Linux users should understand is that there are dozens and dozens of different distributions out there and they are all good. Each of them has their own philosophy and caters to a different set of applications. Ubuntu is specifically targeted towards regular people who are used to Windows and want to do everyday stuff. Red Hat and SUSE are for corporate workstations. Debian is for free software fanatics who think there is something inherantly evil about the software that is the product of paying programmers to write code (I know this sounds bizzare, but this is a much larger group than you would expect). I am not sure exactly what Slackware is about other than it is similar to Gentoo, but has been around longer, Perhaps Slight would like to comment properly on this one.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2006, 12:12:06 PM »
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Slackware, for lack of a better way to describe it, is complicated yet simple all at the same time. It is built from almost entirely clean source, from the Kernel on up, so it is probably as close to a 'linux from scratch' system as you can get. It won't knock your socks off in any one area, but the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Like Gentoo, it assumes you know what you're doing, but once you've learned slackware you'll see that it's greatest attribute is it's bare bones simplistic approach. Slack is still one of the only distributions that ships in runlevel 3 (no GUI). The package manager and system tools are simplistic, yet powerful. I've tried half a dozen different distro's and I'm always drawn back to slackware. Fedora makes me want to pull my hair out, Gentoo just takes too damn long to install. Debian is, well, Debian. SuSE is nice, but I felt more lost using it than many others. Ubuntu is decent, but gave me some issues when trying to compile some things from source (as did Fedora), and Mandrake (Mandriva) just didn't do it for me.
As for Xgl, I spent a couple of hours on it, and (other than the fact that it is GNOME and not KDE) found that some of the features ARE quite productive, once you retrain your habits a bit. I love being able to have a window that is half on one desktop and half on another. I can switch between desktops and have access to the same window (without having to stick it on ALL my desktops) just by dragging it a bit. The transparency is nice (although I had to change it to something other than the default Alt+Ctrl+mouse wheel because too many apps already respond to the mousewheel) and is very helpful if you have fullscreened a couple apps and want to see what is on the one behind the one you are working on without minimizing. for example, I had 2 GIMP images, one on top of the other, and I needed these 2 seperate images to line up on a web page in a very specifc mannor. I was making changes to the top image, then dropping to 50% transparency so that I could see exactly how these 2 images would fit together. VERY nice feature and quite a time saver. F12 to arrange all windows so that you can see the contents is slick, and I think I used that one more than any other feature. I like the 'alt-tab' live preview, it helped ALOT when working with multiple windows in GIMP. It's not uncommon for me to have 8 or even 10 images open at once, and to be jumping back and forth between these. I also like being able to rotate the cube at will, it seemed alot faster to twist the cube just a smidge so that I could glance at a prog on another desktop then trying to switch and then switch back.
It wasn't all good, the bouncy window thing got on my nerves, and the jelly like menus bugged me too, but given the ability to tweak these things, and give the overall performance of offloading alot of this onto the video card I think is a big plus. You may argue that Mac had alot of this stuff first, and that is fine, but, hmmm.... well, I don't use macs, so the whole 'who had it first' thing don't do me much good, now does it. :-)
Personally, I think this kind of technology, bundled with the changes we are expecting to see in KDE 4 will be absolutely huge. I can tell you this, given my hopes for the linux desktop of the future, and the fact that I can ALREADY work more efficently in KDE than I ever could in Windows, I see no reason why I would ever spend money on a Wondows OS again, including Vista. Not to mention the inevitable security holes, the DRM nightmare, system requirements, possible software compatibility issues, etc...etc....etc...
Put simply, if Billy Bob Gatesy-boy want's my hard earned greenbacks, he better figure out how to make Vista cook me breakfast and light my cig the morning after taking me for the ride of my life, if ya know what I mean. :-)
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| « Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 12:16:19 PM by slightcrazed » |
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2006, 12:38:00 PM »
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| Though I am sure you did not intend any offence, but I too consider myself a gamer, which is a point I would feel silly defending. I have my own taste in games, but I seriously don't care to hear some dude ramble on about some gameplay element of a particular game which I don't particularily care about. Maybe that makes me less "hardcore" but I think it is a fair assessment that there are alot of mediocre games out there, and I don't have nearly enough time to care about everything. |
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You're right in that I meant no offense, nor did I mean to imply that not liking the games that Gabe and Tycho like makes you less of a gamer. There are certainly plenty of instances where I have no interest in the games they discuss-- WoW being a prominent example-- but their commentary on it is entertaining regardless. In fact, that's really my point: my interest in trying WoW has increased as a direct result of their commentary.
The point is that I value their opinions of games much higher than I would a review from IGN or GameStop or something. If Gabe says that UFO: Aftermath is a spritual successor to X-COM, and that if you liked the latter, you'll be pleased with the former, that's something that's genuinely useful to me and you can bet your @$$ I'm gonna pick it up next time I'm at CompUSA or Best Buy. Without PA, that game would have never come up on my radar.
| There just isn't enough content in the postings to keep me interested. Perhaps there is some news content in there, but I find if there is something worthwhile that makes it into a comic, be sure that it has already been on Digg or Slashdot a day or two earlier. Basically, this is just a reflection of my opinion that blogs have their place, but generally they are way overrated. |
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I definitely agree with the news-worthy aspect. If I need to know what's going on in the world, I read Slashdot, not PA. But PA's commentary on what is happening in the world is usually enlightening in a way that would not have occurred to me by itself. The unique perspective is what keeps me coming back.
| Sure, some of them I don't get, but if a comedian isn't funny, you don't read his blog to get the explanation, you just don't laugh and move on. |
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Again I agree, and in the case of the comedian, you don't have much choice other than to skip it and move on. But I've found that in PA's case, you have a rare opportunity to be given a perfect "setup" for the joke the comic deals with. The posts almost always provide a deeper context for the comic, and while most people might not agree with me, I find that a worthwhile endeavor.
| I also have one beef with this Child's Play thing that I need to get off my chest. If you have some old gaming harware and games that you don't use, by all means, give it to sick kids. But if you are going to be writing cheques, how about giving it to some organization which has the goal of making sick kids not sick? |
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A valid point, but I can think of two cases that you might be overlooking. The first is kids who have a well understood, clearly treatable disease that nevertheless requires extended stays in the hospital. Sure it might be gratifying to know the stay in the hospital is making you better, but you've still got to sit there on your bum all day every day. Maybe your parents can afford the medical bills, maybe they can't, but either way the priority is on paying for the remedy, not making it more comfortable to endure. How many parents would buy a Gameboy over the drugs that help cure their child's illness? The drugs are clearly more important, but that doesn't mean the Gameboy wouldn't help at all.
Secondly, there are a good number of diseases where research has already shown no amount of innovation can cure. The chronic cases should be allowed to live out their days in relative comfort, and sitting in a hospital bed 24 hours a day staring at the ceiling doesn't really fit the bill in my mind. Playing Sonic on the other hand, distracts and occupies, if nothing else, and a charity that helps fill these two needs alone certainly has its place in the world.
Classic.
| The magic of Gentoo it is that once you have built and configured every element yourself, you have knowledge of every aspect of the system, and can do anything you want with it. Kinda like building a hot rod yourself than buying a car stock, the possiblilties become endless. |
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Yeah, that certainly is Gentoo's real strength, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but out of all the options that a Gentoo install gives you, "Just do it all with the most common settings," isn't one of them.
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[Wumpa] Porter
--Silent, professional, lethal... sometimes.
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Porter
[Wumpa]
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2006, 03:12:56 PM »
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...Aaaannnnd just in time for this conversation: Automatix Kicks Ubuntu into Gear [Slashdot].
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[Wumpa] Porter
--Silent, professional, lethal... sometimes.
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TobY1KaNobY
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Re:Windows Vista
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2006, 03:24:23 PM »
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omg i feel like i just read the New York Times 
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ToBy1
[sp] Clan 208.97.196.99:27024
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