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Topic: Dedicated Server Plan (Read 275 times)
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PanchoDaz
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Dedicated Server Plan
« on: October 26, 2004, 09:52:07 AM »
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Ok I have been thinking about trying to set up a server, as a bit of an experiment.
Basically I don't plan on spending any money so its only going to be a small server run from my home connection.
My home network is set up so that the internet connects directly into my old machine (Athlon 850, 512Mb RAM?) and then two other pc's connect to the internet via a standard WinXP home network.
My internet connection is 512 down and 256 up.
I think I could probably run a 6-8 person server on this connection.
I'm pretty sure I can find out everything I need to know to get the basics done.
What I was wondering is can anyone see any obvious problems with what I'm going to try and do? Will I be able to connect to the server and play from one of my other computers on the network - I guess so?
Also would anyone here with any relevant info be able to help me should I run into any difficulties? Probably to do with tweaking to get the most out of it.
I'm not sure if there's any chance of any of you guys in the US getting any sort of playable ping on it - but it was really just a project to see if I can get it to work - maybe to get a game or so going with Grounded, Joey and JB, when CSR is dead cos you guys are all in bed!
Any info is more than welcome 
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TheeKiller
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2004, 10:17:36 AM »
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Im not much of an expert but i would think that you are going to have bandwidth issues  6-8 is alot is it not? I would think it could run a solid 3 vs 3... then again this is just a guess
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| If you still quetion this get me and as many of your friends in one room or a hall way and I'll use a rubber knife and see how many of you I can smack with it! |
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eni lmao
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2004, 10:24:48 AM »
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3v3 is 6 is it not?
Plus one of them would be me - which shouldn't require bandwidth as I'm on LAN from said server - no?
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TheeKiller
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2004, 10:26:25 AM »
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yea i know 6 but 4 vs 4 would be pushing it i would think. Is it just you or do other people share your internet connection?
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| If you still quetion this get me and as many of your friends in one room or a hall way and I'll use a rubber knife and see how many of you I can smack with it! |
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eni lmao
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2004, 10:34:29 AM »
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I agree that 4v4 MIGHT be pushing it - I'd be happy with 3v3, but if I could get 7 players via internet + me via LAN then that would be ideal.
My internet set up - straight into one pc and then off to two others over LAN. Basically the old pc (direct to internet) sits and does nothing but connect to the internet. Then there's my pc that I play CS on and my flatmates. But thats not really an issue cos he only uses it for browsing the web and anyway he's got a job on a cruise ship so he won't be about most of the time 
I planned on having the old pc running the server as I've heard you don't need to have a very good pc to do that - and also its better than having the server and playing on the same machine (even if that machine is really powerful)
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TheeKiller
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2004, 10:38:10 AM »
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well it should work out for you! As i just remebered tricster set up a server for a day on his computer, well i basically did it. His computer was proabably worse then your old one, but the only real thing i noticed was the unexplained lag spikes. Since i live near himmi would get like 30 ping then it would jump to 600 ping! So if anyone can explain that. **Looks at csr uber nerd***
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| If you still quetion this get me and as many of your friends in one room or a hall way and I'll use a rubber knife and see how many of you I can smack with it! |
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eni lmao
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[Wumpa]
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2004, 03:02:18 PM »
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If nothing else, it's a good exercise just for the practice. I wrote a tutorial a while ago on that subject, but it hasn't been updated for Steam, so I don't know how relevant it will be. It's in the Guides and FAQs section of the forum.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2004, 03:52:58 PM »
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Porter I might need a bit of help with this.
Can I set it up so that people can connect over the internet and I can connect over LAN?
I don't see why not, but all the tutorials I've read discuss one or the other - ie a LAN server - or an internet server.
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2004, 04:00:26 PM »
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Well I've connected to it, so it seems to be running - I'll have to test it with someone else later (grounded? )
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Grounded
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2004, 04:21:34 PM »
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Well I would test it with you but you're never on MSN or Friends...
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2004, 04:24:50 PM »
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I'm just away to go to bed - got an early start tomorow 
Have to test it after the weekend I think
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Nittany
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2004, 12:47:26 AM »
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Set up hlds on it and then configure it to your external ip and portfoward through router.
I don't know, but that is I'd do.
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[Wumpa]
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2004, 05:19:31 AM »
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Porter I might need a bit of help with this.
Can I set it up so that people can connect over the internet and I can connect over LAN?
I don't see why not, but all the tutorials I've read discuss one or the other - ie a LAN server - or an internet server.
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You used to be able to do this easily, but Steam is *STILL* a little flakey when it comes to local ("local" as in on the same LAN) players trying to join a public server.
Basically, follow the instructions for a internet server. There aren't many changes to switch it back and forth between a LAN and public server though, so it doesn't really matter too much.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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joey
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2004, 10:49:44 AM »
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Give me a shout when you want to test it!!
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2004, 01:58:31 PM »
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Nittany I dont have a router so that won't really be a problem
Porter I set it up kinda as you suggested and it seemed to work so for now I'm happy
Joey you're banned already
jk - probably next week I'll be looking for you and/or Stu and Tom to help me test it
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2004, 05:18:10 PM »
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| Nittany I dont have a router so that won't really be a problem |
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And you're using Windows!?!? Dear lord man! Do you have any idea how at risk your computer is running Windows on a broadband connection without a NAT firewall?
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Grounded
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2004, 05:20:37 PM »
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Rob you better get rid of all those state secrets you loaded on the server...
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2004, 04:42:33 AM »
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| Nittany I dont have a router so that won't really be a problem |
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And you're using Windows!?!? Dear lord man! Do you have any idea how at risk your computer is running Windows on a broadband connection without a NAT firewall?
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erm - no, I've not had any problems - you may laugh but I just use windows xp firewall  that may be a mistake but I kinda pressumed that would do the job
All this firewall stuff is new to me - and how would a router help anyway? I didn't realise that gave any additional security?
How would you recommend I have things set up? I have had friends round who tweaked the network settings originally - no one has ever mentioned any security problem and they knew a lot more about this stuff than me.
Can you explain why you thinks its so bad and how I can check if I have got any other security features running that I don't really know about - a bit naiive i know but I never figured it was a problem.
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Grounded
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2004, 04:50:48 AM »
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n00b!!!
Ahem.
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[Wumpa]
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2004, 05:20:38 AM »
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| erm - no, I've not had any problems - you may laugh but I just use windows xp firewall that may be a mistake but I kinda pressumed that would do the job |
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For one thing, Windows XP Service Pack 2 has a hole in it that allows anyone on the internet to access your files and printer, even through Microsoft's wonderful firewall. The built-in firewall is just not reliable (which isn't really surprising since it's from Microsoft).
| All this firewall stuff is new to me - and how would a router help anyway? I didn't realise that gave any additional security? |
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Using a router provides something called "Network Address Translation" or NAT. Basically what it does is create a separate network inside your house, and acts as a gateway to the internet. The only IP address that is accessible from the outside is the one that your router is connected to. Computers on the inside route their data through the router, which allows connections to be established from inside the network but not from the outside. That means that viruses that attack IP addresses will try to attack your router (which is immune to the attacks) instead of Windows (which would crumble under the attack). This level of protection alone is more helpful than any other security precaution. Without a router you are quite literally a sitting duck, and it isn't a matter of *if* your computer will be compromised, just a matter of *when* it will happen.
But viruses aren't even the scariest problem-- hackers have started writing software that basically turns your computer into a zombie. Once this software worms its way into your system, the computer will listen for commands from the program's author, and then execute them on your machine. For example, how would you like to find out that your machine has been sending out 15,000 pieces of spam advertising a porn site each day on your broadband connection?
Can you explain why you thinks its so bad and how I can check if I have got any other security features running that I don't really know about - a bit naiive i know but I never figured it was a problem.
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The short of it is, if you use Windows, it is a necessary cost to have AV software, a software based firewall, and some kind of hardware based routing device to isolate your machine from incoming attacks. Those, and of course using any browser other than Internet Explorer. 99% of the problems people have with computers are because of Microsoft, and Windows users are usually incredibly under-trained about the risks of using their computers on the internet unfortunately. That's not anybody's fault but Microsoft though, so you shouldn't feel bad for not knowing.
The best tool out there to help determine if you have something you shouldn't on your computer is called "Ad-Aware". You can get the "Personal" edition for free from http://www.lavasoftusa.com
But yeah, I just wouldn't EVER think of putting a Windows machine directly on the internet. Even if you don't have files or passwords or credit card numbers or personal emails you wouldn't want someone reading on your computer, you should be worried about somebody else using your computer to try to hack the Pentagon or send spam, at which point your ISP (or the police) will be coming after you, and not the hacker using your computer. Those are extreme cases of course, but I sure wouldn't be willing to take that risk.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2004, 08:24:16 AM »
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I've got Ad Aware I think - I'll run it when I'm next home.
Is there no way I can run a better software firewall? Or is a router a better option?
I take it the router should sit between the internet and ALL the pcs, rather than just replacing my hub? Because if it just replaced my hub then only the two pcs on the network would be protected but the other pc would still be connected straight to the internet?!
Stu how is your broadband set up? You don't have a router do you?
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Skip
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2004, 10:46:03 AM »
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I'm on a cable modem (roadrunner) and supposedly they have anti-virus and firewall protection. I also do not leave my pc on when I'm not using it. I have Norton Anti Virus and use the free version of zone alarm, I also run ad aware once a week.
Is that enough or should be doing something else?
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The only glory in war is surviving
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Surgeon General
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2004, 01:53:05 PM »
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Don't open random files.
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2004, 03:44:26 PM »
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Ok I knew that I just didn't put in my post wiseguy
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The only glory in war is surviving
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[Wumpa]
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2004, 01:22:23 PM »
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| I've got Ad Aware I think - I'll run it when I'm next home. |
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That's good, but it will only help if you've already caught something, and that's bad. The goal is to prevent anything from getting in to begin with.
| Is there no way I can run a better software firewall? Or is a router a better option? |
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Both. Absolutely, no question, both. Zone Labs firewall product called "ZoneAlarm" is free and does an excellent job. It's very full featured. Admittedly, you have to "train" it to allow your games, web browser and email program to access the internet, but once you get over that hump, it will sit in the background and prevent all unauthorized connections not only from coming in, but also from viruses and mal-ware already on your computer from talking out.
| I take it the router should sit between the internet and ALL the pcs, rather than just replacing my hub? Because if it just replaced my hub then only the two pcs on the network would be protected but the other pc would still be connected straight to the internet?! |
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The router is, as I said, the single most important thing you can do to protect your computer(s). ESPECIALLY if you have more than one PC on the net, you should be using it to isolate your machines form the internet at large.
What happens is that instead of your computer talking to your cable or DSL modem, the router makes the connection (usually called "PPPoE" for "Point to Point Protocol Over Ethernet"). Then the router acts as an interface. ALL of the computers on your network connect to the router, and the router negotiates and manages the connections to and from the internet. The benefit is that the router knows not to allow random requests from the internet into the network. And it tags all of the packets that originate from the computers inside the network so it knows to allow the responses to them back in. This is a highly effective defense against the brute force attacks out there because although the interent will behave exactly the same from your perspective, your computer no longer even appears as a target from the internet's perspective. Of course, it won't prevent you from installing spyware yourself, either by using an insecure browser like Internet Explorer, or because you've downloaded a questionable piece of software, such as Kazaa (which by the way secretly installs 3 other programs that monitor your online activities when you install it).
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2004, 03:34:52 PM »
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Kazaa sucks, but if you insist on using it install Diet K on top of it. It removes all that nonsense. Ares is how the cool cats roll.
I still think if you have somewhat of a clue as to what you're doing on the internet you can avoid spyware and most viruses. Though unless you've got that whole router/firewall setup porter is talking about, you're still vunerable to all those other crazy things he was talking about. 
Router + Brain = Good Times
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love!
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2004, 01:15:25 PM »
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Ok well I got the server up and running and I can connect no problem.
The first time JB tried to connect he timed out before he could actually get in game.
Second time we got a 1v1 going but his ping was really high - about 200.
I'm not really sure how the server setting will affect ping - i set things like the updaterate pretty low - because i've not got a lot of bandwidth to play with.
Is this something I'm likely to solve or is it a bit of a catch 22 situation? As in, if I want a reasonable amount of players (only 3v4 ) then they'll have to put up with high ping, but if i want to lower their ping I'll have to lower the total number of players allowed?
Any advice will be welcome because I have no idea how the server settings affect ping really, if at all.
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2004, 06:18:38 AM »
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Think it might be my sv_maxrate and sv_minrate settings
I'll have to check what I set them to when I go home.
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2004, 11:10:24 AM »
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Keep in mind that ping is also drastically effected by how fast HLDS is running. If you're trying to PLAY CS from the same machine that you're hosting the game from, you're stealing TONS of CPU cycles from the server and using it for your client game. That can usually cause everyone's pings to go up a ton. Try having a couple people join from outside, but DON'T join yourself-- just watch the server's console and the FPS display across the top. You can also use the stats console command to see the current HLDS load.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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PanchoDaz
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2004, 12:04:40 PM »
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Not playing on the same pc - so I'm still not sure. Have to give it some thought this week if I get time. Thanks for the input though.
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zeus
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Re:Dedicated Server Plan
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2004, 02:50:41 PM »
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PORTER = HACKER LOL I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ...WHAT IS YOUR JOB???
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