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Topic: Professional Gaming My Foot! (Read 636 times)
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[Wumpa]
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Professional Gaming My Foot!
« on: August 29, 2003, 09:42:27 AM »
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This is for all of you who keep going on about how computer games like CS are sports that people earn a living at. Not that I'm saying it's not possible, but it's not quite as easy as you make it out to be.
http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,60139,00.html
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| « Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 09:17:56 AM by Porter » |
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2003, 08:49:22 PM »
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First off that is quake and rtcw. Also, i'm sorry if by saying two clans among the thousands get a salary equals "it is a cake walk." Then I guess i'm guilty.
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2003, 12:39:31 AM »
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who makes it out to be a CAKE WALK!??? your obviously referencing me or nittany or maybe kidshaft... none of us even somewhat implied that, Hell i talk about it all the time how i want to get better and get good enough to get into a sponsored clan... certainly it's no cake walk, and "your foot" ? it's grown hugely in 7 years... each event has more people and bigger audiences with more prize money. CS is the cutting edge of pro-gaming, not rtcw or quake...
good to see your basing your opinion off of one article though, you should do some research first.
(seriously, wtf, who has even implied it was a cake walk??)
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2003, 01:04:01 AM »
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first of all, i don't think one article is a bad thing. it is quality, not quantity. And second of all, it wouldn't surprise me if it is true. Essentially the tournament of thousands breaks down to about 10 players battling for top seats, and after all their 8months of work (at usually 40+ hour weeks) they got all of 3.3k which for you math majors is barely 5 grand a year. If you can even live off that, your better then most of the mexicans I work with, and they make minimum wage.
interesting article, cake walk or not, it shows the slim possibility of "living" off of gaming.
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2003, 01:16:56 AM »
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well, the fact is, there's the fact of enjoyment you get from it, sure... the guys in 3D make a minimum wage income... but who really enjoys their job as much as these guys?
and fact is, you can work a part time job and still dedicate enough time for the necessary amount of practice.
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2003, 01:22:02 AM »
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if only they had minesweeper tournaments..
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-=]H[=-Smokey
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2003, 02:10:02 AM »
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I think Smokey is going to be a lawyer for the many reasons... lol
1) High Wage
2) Some Hot Female Attorneys... (with lace stalkings *drules*) lol
3) Everyone will know u
4) If you get in trouble with the law, you dont have to pay for a fucking lawyer that will gouge the shit outta you lol...
The Many WRONG reasons in becoming a lawyer, but Smokey lol
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Eagle'z Nest 2000-2003 R.I.P
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CSR-Phoenix 2003 Rock On 
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2003, 09:09:39 AM »
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Woah woah, take it easy! Sorry, I didn't expect to get such a passionate response. I'm not attacking anybody, and I had hoped the title of the post would be taken as humorous. Feel free to use "ONE Article that makes Professional Gaming Sound very UN-lucrative"
The only part that I was struck by was the math of it, as Tenshi pointed out: Cutting edge or not, only the top players/clans are gonna walk away with prize money, and even then when you split it up and divide it by all the time it took to get good enough to win the money in the first place, you would be better off working at McDonalds. I see that as a pretty large counter-argument to "being able to play games for a living", and that's the only point I was trying to make from it. I never said it wouldn't be fun to do, and given the chance to try it without the cost of not working for 8 months or whatever, I'd be standing in line right beside all of you. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2003, 10:27:11 AM »
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I'd be earning top dollar as a pro-gamer but my 56k modem is holding me back...
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2003, 03:46:18 PM »
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/agree w/ porter.
hellz yeah, if i was actually good, i'd freaking try to play too. Until then, i'm very happy merely at CSR.
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LeTHaL DoSe
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2003, 04:07:51 PM »
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| you would be better off working at McDonalds. |
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aka Mister Triggers
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2003, 04:16:30 PM »
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you would be better off working at McDonalds.
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You get a smile with every meal!
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Phoenix Knight
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2003, 02:18:28 PM »
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Lol! And a good deal of fake food too! And only for unreasonable prices!
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2003, 04:10:27 PM »
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Wow, never thought people would be so... intelligent!
Two, yes Two, cs clans make a living off of cs. NO, others do. <-------- I guess that is what you consider my argument stating how easy it is to make a living off of gaming.
As for using one article as a source of an arguement it is dumb because... No wait you are correct there is no need to see other points of view no matter what the subject is. The first one is always the right one silly.
I think John and I are waiting to see who said it was a cake walk as well? Maybe a mystery ghost?
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2003, 09:25:35 AM »
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TEH MYSTARY GOAST OF CSR!!! SHIBAR MY TIMBERS MATEIY
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Darkmage
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2003, 04:17:21 PM »
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gyah! ghost pirates!! Where is MK when you really need them?? 
-DM-
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2003, 09:19:47 AM »
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| I think John and I are waiting to see who said it was a cake walk as well? Maybe a mystery ghost? |
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<sigh> The offending "cake-walk" phrase has been modified to make its meaning easier for some of our members to understand. Please see the original post. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2003, 02:13:11 PM »
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We understand the term "cake-walk" point being none of us have made it out to be an easy goal, in our opinions
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2003, 02:40:31 PM »
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i understood the term "cake-walk" being the act of walking on cakes..in which then porter would be right..making a living off cs is definitly not a cake walk..they are two completely different activities. i imagine both would be fun to do though..
EdIT - really though..if they had minesweeper tournys..i would be the king..5 seconds to complete the beginner stage totally rules.
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| « Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 02:43:40 PM by Deuce » |
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2003, 06:01:45 PM »
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Way to dodge the question.
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2003, 06:24:54 PM »
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i have a guess as to who he was talking about..but its only a guess..so i wont bother with it
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Justboy
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2003, 11:10:42 AM »
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Wow nice thread...if there's anything we need more of it's pro gamers and lawyers
I'm gonna run my own film production company...cos clearly we don't have enough films or Hollywood junkies either.
Also, if any of you layabouts want a job - i'm hiring.
Justy
PS: I saw a cakewalk thing on That 70s Show but Eric didn't stop the music so they just kept walking...
Was funny.
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2003, 08:27:05 AM »
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"PS: I saw a cakewalk thing on That 70s Show but Eric didn't stop the music so they just kept walking..."
It's funny because it's true!
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kumahachi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2003, 10:06:55 PM »
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ooo! ooo! I've gotta add my pov..... Calkwalk, a midi program designed for easy of use, similar to macs.. Both intended for the mentally retarded.
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Freakin Fragger
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2003, 12:00:07 AM »
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mmmmmmmmmmm cake walk
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2003, 07:55:29 AM »
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ooo! ooo! I've gotta add my pov..... Calkwalk, a midi program designed for easy of use, similar to macs.. Both intended for the mentally retarded.
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Wow, that's not a very nice thing to say in one of your first few posts! I know you're new here, but you know that screen that you clicked past when you registered? The Terms and Conditions? Those still apply. I'm sure everyone would appreciate it if you try not to insult broad ranges of people all at once.
I bet you're one of StealthMode's friends, am I right?
Either way: welcome to CSR. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Father Ribs
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2003, 07:59:04 AM »
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You have to pardon Porter, he's our resident Mac apologist.
I'll even grant him that there are things the Mac is good for...but c'mon, some of the stuff they do, they just do to be "different from PCs".
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SR: R. I. P. 2001
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2003, 09:17:00 AM »
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Macs are really easy to upgrade though. When you want to upgrade you just toss out your old one and get a new one.
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2003, 11:22:12 AM »
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actually porter, Kumahachi is an RL friend of mine, and that was a harmless joke on macs... kumahachi does alot of stuff with music and audio mixing, so i'm sure he connected the simple easy to use programs with mac's, i really doubt he meant any harm by it... relax please :-p
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| « Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 11:24:21 AM by Kaoz » |
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2003, 02:53:39 PM »
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I'm sure no harm was intended but using phrases like 'mentally retarded' is a little harsh for a joke.
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Darkmage
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2003, 03:25:59 PM »
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Besides, I thought only a small amount of computer users use macs....thats a minority! We can still insult minorities, right?
-DM-
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2003, 03:56:36 PM »
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"mentally retarded" has been commonplace since i was in 1st grade 
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Darkmage
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2003, 04:07:58 PM »
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That doesnt make it proper, man.
We're politically correct here.
I think the right term is 'metally challenged'
But I think it's the way its being used thats the problem (in a derogatory fashion)
-DM-
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| « Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 09:22:12 PM by Darkmage » |
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2003, 04:54:32 PM »
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alright, then lets add a few more words/phrases to the banned word list
crap
hell
damn
shoot
god damn
jesus christ
"friggin"
"freakin"
heck lets toss "sex" on their too.
edit: point being, this is all considered acceptable language by the public school system (and who's bigger language-nazi's than them?), but once was considered innappropriate, and phrases like "mentally retarded" in everyday speech is just one of the new ones that the 20's crowd might have been brought up seeing as innappropriate, but the newer generations say in common speech...
I understand the fact that more people use it does not "excuse" it but it should lend to some leniency and a lack of... hostility(?) at those who use it?
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| « Last Edit: September 09, 2003, 04:58:32 PM by Kaoz » |
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2003, 05:19:56 PM »
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i agree with those list of words being now socially accepted (except for maybe god damn and jesus christ that might not settle well with the religious people). and words like retarded, gay, and faggot are slowly becoming like that. but to me that doesnt give a reason to use them as insults (i know i have used them in the past, but i make an effort to not do it anymore).
the one thing that does bug me though is when someone will say something is gay..but then follow up by saying "oh it means happy." yeah..it means happy. like a 100 years ago. i mean..if you go by that logic..you should also be going by the logic that if you call someone a "faggot", the person is suppose to understand that they are a bundle of sticks.
anyway..my 2 cents.
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2003, 05:26:11 PM »
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or a cigarette
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ayo
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2003, 05:27:42 PM »
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Macs are really easy to upgrade though. When you want to upgrade you just toss out your old one and get a new one.
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Thats just pure hillariousness!! GGZ!!
O, and i HATE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!!
I do see that it can be hurtful and harsh if used that way....but now people shun u and call u a raciast or a horrible person for making an innocent joke that is just that...a joke...not meant to hurt anyone's feelings or anything. And people should stop being so touchy!!!! ITS A JOKE!!! GET OVER IT!! ITS NOT MEANT TO BE SERIOUS OTHER WISE WE WOULDNT HAVE SAID IT IN JOKE FORM!!
Like for example, some people can get so sensitive with this: Polish guy deserted on an island with paradise just a mile a way on another island. The only way to get their is by swimming. So he starts swimmin and gets half way there, then he decides hes too tired and turns around. Now granted this is hillarious, but it is the least "offensive" (meaning one of the few that people actually dont complain about being raciast, etc.) that i decided to put on here.
If someone made a joke about me and my ethnic backgrounds or whatever, i wouldnt mind, i would actually most likely laugh.
Now i am not venting or saying this to anyone here, i am just venting my anger at teh government and society today for making everything so damn politically correct...i cant stand it. Everyone has to be careful with what they say...they cant just joke around anymore...sad  .
sorry for my long, off-topic post
ayo
ps. Koaz, i totally agree with u that the schools are the biggest language-nazis
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2003, 05:47:22 PM »
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Macs are really easy to upgrade though. When you want to upgrade you just toss out your old one and get a new one.
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http://webdev.o1.com/rvb/movies/switch/RvB_switch.mov
where he got it from i imagine.
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2003, 07:49:40 PM »
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I hate politcal correctness too. What a bs movement. Let's all limit what we say so we don't offend anyone. Who cares if you offend someone. People will be offeneded. And if you let people control what you say then you let people control what you think.
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Darkmage
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2003, 09:20:56 PM »
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My post was kinda sarcastic...except for the last part......um....sorry about missing the " "
on the first part.
*pulls collar aside to let steam out*
-DM- 
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2003, 09:24:08 PM »
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I edited my post before to convey my meaning better.
....also since when does the public school system let you say retarded?
Man, they slap people for saying stuff like that up here in Ca-na-da. 
-DM-
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2003, 09:29:51 PM »
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i say retarded on a daily basis
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Holy Grail
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2003, 09:44:01 PM »
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I do too, I say it like... boy that question was retarded... but, thats in a different context... I would never call someone that is mentally challenged retarded. ever, its too derogatory in that context.
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2003, 10:29:17 PM »
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EXACTLY Grail! now would u read the post on the first page by kumahachi? he used it the unnoffensive way
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2003, 03:52:43 AM »
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"I understand the fact that more people use it does not "excuse" it but it should lend to some leniency and a lack of... hostility(?) at those who use it?"
No-one was being hostile.
"EXACTLY Grail! now would u read the post on the first page by kumahachi? he used it the unnoffensive way"
I've read it a couple of times and, although it may not seem that way to you, it doesn't read particularly like a joke. I'm not saying it wasn't but when someone posts on a forum their meaning isn't always clear. I understand the joke but there are plenty of ways to phrase it without offending anyone.
"And if you let people control what you say then you let people control what you think."
Swear filters = governement conspiracy? Remote indoctrination? Duck and cover everyone, it's the end of civilization as we know it...
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2003, 11:35:04 AM »
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grounded man...watch your phraseology, cause i was quickly looking at this, and saw "DUCK" and nearly had a conniption...i know, i know, completely unrelated but i'm wierd like that sometimes ok?
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2003, 11:55:14 AM »
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Wow, grounded your retarded or mentally challenged. Yes, swear filters mean goverment conspiracy. Because political correctness has something to do with politics in the first place.
We think, articulate, and explain with our words. When someone trys to change a way we express something it will eventually alter how you think about that thing. For good or for bad.
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Porter
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2003, 03:21:08 PM »
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Just to set the record straight: I posted that on the day StealthMode made is last appearance, so naturally I wasn't in a very cheery mood. I don't excuse myself for it though-- my comment was perhaps a bit harsh. Again because of our good friend StealthMode, I am keen to get people to mind the Terms and Conditions we all agreed to when we signed up here, so my statement stands.
As for kumahachi's comment; if you decide to be a Mac user, you have to expect insults and horrible misconceptions from people who are generally VERY ignorant when it comes to Macs. You have to expect it though, not put up with it. The only way to change people's misconceptions and lessen their ignorance is to enlighten them.
You should consider for a second that this entire site was designed on Macs, is maintained from Macs, and generally managed from Macs, almost exclusively. In addition, about half of all the AdminMod plugins currently running on the game server were written on a Mac. All of the custom PHP code for the website like the downloads page, the server info page, the screenshots page, and the mapcycle page were programmed on Macs. Quite literally, you would not be here reading this if it weren't for Macs.
That's pretty good considering we're focussed entirely around a game that is only available for Windows PCs.
And lastly, I think you're all crazy (and perhaps foolish) to use Windows everyday and put up with it. That's just plain dumb! But at the same time, you're entitled to make up your own mind, and I try very hard not to insult YOUR decisions... as long as you show some restraint and not insult mine. Use whatever kind of computer you like-- as long as it gets the job done, nobody other than you has got any right to complain about it.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2003, 04:14:07 PM »
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"Wow, grounded your retarded or mentally challenged."
Was that really necessary? You mentioned on another thread that you enjoy a good debate. Don't ruin this one.
"Yes, swear filters mean goverment conspiracy. Because political correctness has something to do with politics in the first place."
Political correctness is striving not to offend other people when there is no need to. There is nothing sinister or heinously constricting about it; it is simply the implementation of common courtesy. Granted it is often pushed to extremes (as is everything these days) but usually not so. There is always a way of expressing something without offending someone else, unless of course that is your intention in the first place in which case political correctness matters not.
"We think, articulate, and explain with our words. When someone trys to change a way we express something it will eventually alter how you think about that thing. For good or for bad."
I can't believe what I'm reading. A swear filter does not change the way we express ourselves, it simply limits the number of possible ways to do so. Let me ask you this: would you swear in front of your grandparents? Or in front of young children maybe? You might but I wouldn't. In the case of my grandparents I would choose not to swear because I know doing so would offend them - not because my mind has been irreversibly impaired by typing 'clean' messages on the CSR server.
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Kaoz
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2003, 04:29:35 PM »
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A swear filter does not change the way we express ourselves, it simply limits the number of possible ways to do so.
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Oh, sort of like how an Elephant isn't "big" its just the opposite of small?
Or how when water falls from the sky, its not rain, it's precipitation?
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2003, 05:43:54 PM »
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Well I was being sarcastic as you were when I said swear filters mean goverment conspiracy.
The only part of my post that mentioned a swear filter. Was when I was giving you back the sarcasm you put out before. So when you can't believe your reading it; I can't believe you misinterpreted that.
Seriously, I don't know who your talking to grounded when you talk about the swear filter. If it is me then you probably use a mac or something.
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Deuce
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2003, 05:46:29 PM »
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Recap:
this discussion went from:
professional gaming
to..
walking on cakes
to..
retarded macs and there users
to..
goverment conspiracys and swear filters
and finally..
the art of sarcasm
this thread roxxors
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ayo
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2003, 06:04:33 PM »
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if ace was still around...it would have went on 20 more side tracks just within the first 2 pages!! We have had tons of off-topic posts...i think those are one of hte bests!
hehe
ayo
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Darkmage
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2003, 06:28:23 PM »
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Speaking of that, where DID Ace go?
-DM-
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2003, 10:58:53 PM »
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I'd like to think I've combined some of the topics of this thread in most of my posts. Ex Mac bshng and pol cor.
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2003, 03:52:20 AM »
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| Let's all limit what we say so we don't offend anyone. Who cares if you offend someone. People will be offeneded. |
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I used swear filters as an example of a limitation.
"Seriously, I don't know who your talking to grounded when you talk about the swear filter. If it is me then you probably use a mac or something."
The analogy is swear filters in CS -> political correctness.
"Yes, swear filters mean goverment conspiracy. Because political correctness has something to do with politics in the first place."
This is not sarcasm. You may well have intended it to be but that's not how it reads. I 'put out' sarcasm before because your original message on the subject ("And if you let people control what you say then you let people control what you think.") was so overblown and dramatic.
"Oh, sort of like how an Elephant isn't "big" its just the opposite of small?
Or how when water falls from the sky, its not rain, it's precipitation?"
Pretty poor examples but yes. The difference is that saying an elephant is 'the opposite of small' won't offend anyone and neither will saying it is big. There is NEVER any need to swear in a CS server (however much you might want to) and there is always another way to express your 'displeasure'.
Just for the record, I've never used a Mac.
Oh and Deuce I'm offended by your use of 'roxxors'.
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Justboy
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2003, 04:53:18 AM »
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Some thread.
For my part, I find the term 'mentally retarded' offensive. Maybe it's a USA thing (my usual cop-out of argument chestnut) , but saying someone or something is retarded over here is just not on - however lighthearted it might be. It's one of those phrases that annoys me a lot.
I don't equate it to censorship because it's not just some swear word - it's a derogatory term derived from a slur at disability. Whoever is responsible for making it a common term should be beaten with a large stick.
It's not like other random cursewords.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2003, 02:03:21 PM »
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Yeah....where did ACE go?
I'll call him out using the magic ACE finding phrase:
ACE?
slight
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2003, 02:19:35 PM »
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I'm just impressed the original topic somehow magically turned into 4 pages... 
Fun for the crew...
I used to say "retarded" alot, til one of my good friends had a truly retarded brother, he got very upset when people used the word without thinking...I guess it woke me up.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2003, 02:38:22 PM »
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I'm just impressed the original topic somehow magically turned into 4 pages...
Fun for the crew...
I used to say "retarded" alot, til one of my good friends had a truly retarded brother, he got very upset when people used the word without thinking...I guess it woke me up.
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I prefer the term 'Mentally challenged', as in:
That height disfunctional, obesity challenged, Native American, mentally challenged man is standing in the middle of the road.
as opposed to:
That short, fat, retarded indian is about to get his ass run over.
thank you in advance,
slight
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Nittany
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2003, 04:10:22 PM »
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Well I was being sarcastic i'm sorry that was so difficult to understand. I think others got it though...
Well, just because this site is built around cs we do talk about other things besides cs. Believe it or not I wasn't talking about the relation between cs and political correctness at all. You made that connection in a rebutal to one of my posts. Sorry cheif I have no problem with swear filters on a privately owned server.
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Guardian_Tenshi
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2003, 11:46:45 PM »
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ooOOOOO!!!!
five pages
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Re:Professional Gaming My Foot!
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2003, 04:44:25 AM »
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Sorry
I must have inferred that whole bit from something someone else said, if not in this thread then somewhere else.
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