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Topic: [pbJ] Scores two wins (Read 345 times)
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Kaoz
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[pbJ] Scores two wins
« on: July 28, 2004, 09:25:29 AM »
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[pbJ] > Mental Debris: Forfeit Win (they didn't show up, only terraji. makes sense that a forfeit is 13 rounds so you still get enough rounds to count for a win, but not the full 24 for not even playing.)
[pbJ] > -[PBAS]-: 19-5 Good show from enialator the 2nd half, he had two aces (where you kill all 3 members of the other team yourself) I believe.
wasn't sure where to report the matches. I'd write a match report but I don't know if I could so so objectively :-p
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-|TWB|- aZuS (CSR-P)
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2004, 10:17:28 AM »
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i seen it.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2004, 10:20:45 AM »
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wasn't sure where to report the matches. I'd write a match report but I don't know if I could so so objectively :-p
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You can PM it to Yuna and she'll get it posted properly.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Druz
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2004, 03:45:59 PM »
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Ace is 5, thas' jus' the way it is ty
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Deuce
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2004, 04:05:37 PM »
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eh.. if you "ace" a team, it means you kill all of them by yourself.. the number doesnt matter.
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biggums
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2004, 04:56:31 PM »
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it's a csr tourney ace
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Justboy
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2004, 06:03:34 PM »
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A default win was pre-written in the rules as a 1-0 win and not a 13-0 win.
I do understand, however, that it is unfair that pbJ be disadvantaged in gaining less rounds than other teams due to no fault of their own.
I also hope you understand that it is unfair to take 13 rounds having won none.
We'll look into the rule and I'll have a word with those involved on PM/Steam/MSN to sort out what will be the continuing standard for the tourney.
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Deuce
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2004, 06:05:41 PM »
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good. now get on msn. i wanted to talk to you anyway
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Nittany
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2004, 02:22:35 AM »
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Just being real here.
You also have to understand, that if the match was actually played, we'd probably take more then 13 rounds. Only taking 13 rounds seems fair at the least.
John and I were really looking forward to playing our match on inferno. Having played it quite a bit, we had all of our positions setup and our basic strats for t side. Mainly though, we were just going to rely on our experience and ability to outshoot most of our opponents. With Sharkhunter there to put the middle on lock down and come through when we were never expecting it. Only terr showed up and we were really really disapointed. Especially because playing a match on office didn't excite me too much.
Anyways, it was a fun match having never played office in a sort of tourny format. The match started off with a knife round to decide who got to pick sides first. pbJ won that round after all of pbas got untop on boxes and kaoz rushed jumped up at them some came at kaoz and quickly we were all running around. Interesting and if more thought was put into it then i'm sure the t's could do some inventive things. However, both teams decided to do a basic setup defensively around the hostages. I gaurded the long hall, which I quickly learned, really wasn't that long. Kaoz played over by the stairs. Sharkhunter, Kaoz's 51 year old dad, floated inbetween Kaoz and I.
Most attacks came my way down the hall. I usually just flashed and naded and fell back. Things would get squirrly though because if you peaked when they were up close there was little chance of falling back. Sometimes I could spray though the corner as they ran towards me. Also, eni killed me one time and I completely missed him at point blank... with a whole clip. Skip hung in their, but I remember checking the scores and seeing him being 0-7. I believe he did finally come up with some clutch kills that resulted in rounds won for pbas.
I really didn't like it when John died and biggums was still left out there. Believe it or not, I don't play a whole lot and don't play any games while i'm at school. Well, biggums can tell you about this crappy typing game I did to get me by. biggums, however, still plays a ton and we know how each other are going to play. Being horrible with an ak, and biggums being good with a colt, he killed us many times in the first half. Surely held his team up through the first half. He left after the match was won and didn't play out the match because he has to work early in the morning and wanted to go to bed.
After the match was won, pbJ decided to fool around. pbas, only consisting of skip and eni now fought back hard. I remember John and I round a corner toward t spawn and skip and eni did a crouched head stack killing john and I. Before I died I managed to tmp one of them. Sharkhunter came up with some 1 v 1 wins for us in this half, helping our money game. If biggums would have stayed for the whole seconds half pbas would have been able to steal more round from the match.
At the end of the match, eni and skip wished us luck and we did to them and then we all exited the server.
Overall, it was a fun match and it was fun to play with and against my friends. I look forward to future matches against csr regs and can't wait to get raped by druz's flunkies.
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Nittany
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2004, 02:50:40 AM »
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I believe Kaoz wanted to make his demo available and I want to watch it because I forgot to record. Should be good, be warned though, I probably swear a fair amount on it and you may be made fun of. GGz
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Grounded
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2004, 03:53:12 AM »
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You also have to understand, that if the match was actually played, we'd probably take more then 13 rounds. Only taking 13 rounds seems fair at the least.
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So you think the score of forfeit matches should be judged based on the relative skill of the two teams?? How sporting.
Anyway why can't you guys just keep rescheduling until you get the match played? If you really want to play on inferno then why not?
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Kaoz
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2004, 09:46:05 AM »
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well i think the point is, let's say it comes down to two teams with equal records in the playoffs, and we look at rounds for/rounds against for seeding purposes. Why should WE be penalized by not having as many rounds for as another team, isn't 13 rounds a reasonable way to keep our total rounds for somewhere in the neighborhood of the other teams with as many wins?
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Skip
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2004, 10:34:27 AM »
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I agree that 13-0 would be an equitable forfeit score.
If you give a team 1-0 you are basically penalizing a team for something that was not their fault.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2004, 11:10:35 AM »
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well i think the point is, let's say it comes down to two teams with equal records in the playoffs, and we look at rounds for/rounds against for seeding purposes. Why should WE be penalized by not having as many rounds for as another team, isn't 13 rounds a reasonable way to keep our total rounds for somewhere in the neighborhood of the other teams with as many wins?
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I say it should be 1-0 exactly for this reason. You didn't EARN any rounds if the other team forfeits. The only fair thing to do is give you the least number of rounds necessary to qualify as a win, and that's 1. It's not fair for a team to get 13 rounds for playing zero. If it comes down to a tie breaker in the end, then play a tie-breaking match, but a forfeit is a game NOT played, and I don't think anyone should get 13 points for THAT. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2004, 11:13:02 AM »
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Meh just reschedule if you want more round wins.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2004, 11:16:45 AM »
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Meh just reschedule if you want more round wins.
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That would be my vote too. If you don't want to play matches, you probably shouldn't have entered a tournament to begin with, but if you want the points, your best bet is to play the match, especially...
| ...if the match was actually played, we'd probably take more then 13 rounds. |
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Skip
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2004, 11:25:00 AM »
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I can see both sides of the argument but I still say 1-0 is punishing the team that showed up for something that is not their fault. If 13 were the most rounds you could take then something like 7-0 would be more fair for a forfeit, but with the potential to take all 24 rounds....
In any case it probably won't have an effect in the final standings, and there isn't any money involved and I would think first tie breaker would be head to head anyways?
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Kaoz
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2004, 01:14:47 PM »
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we DID reschedule though... that was the rescheduled time.
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Deuce
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2004, 01:52:04 PM »
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how's this for a fair solution: come time that the need for determining the better team because of tied pts in the rankings, instead of picking the higher rank based off rounds won / lost we base it off rounds won percentage. this would also make up for the two matches we;ve already had with people leaving early before playing out the whole game.
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Nittany
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2004, 02:14:19 PM »
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No Grounded, I was clearly saying we deserve atleast 13 rounds. I'm sorry if we rescheduled with a team once and the second time they failed to show up. I don't get the reasoning of because the team failed to show up for their scheduled matches the other team should have to be punished for that. I know there isn't any money involved, I just think much of the attitude i'm getting from some people from the day that that John and I said we were going to play together; just has to do with me being me. Case in point, where were your complaints when druz took all of his "csr regulars" and put them on a team. Your complaints don't exist for that team. So take your bias and hate somewhere else please.
Deuce had a great idea.
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TheeKiller
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2004, 02:18:14 PM »
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nittany is right. Really no sarcasim intened
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Druz
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2004, 02:20:49 PM »
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nittany is right, at MINIMUM they should be getting 13 rounds to qualify for a win, not 1 round.. 13 rounds
Everyone else that will actually play their matches will have a much greater chance to get more than 13 rounds leaving pbj down a few rounds but not completly out of it, if they get a few great wins (24-0 for a really good example) they can still win by rounds won.
If you feel its SO important to give them 1 round then get the other team to eventually make up the match so we don't have to go over this.
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TheeKiller
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2004, 02:23:01 PM »
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From what i have heard mentaldebris did not even know what they where doing in terms of entering....
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Justboy
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2004, 02:28:08 PM »
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"You also have to understand, that if the match was actually played, we'd probably take more then 13 rounds. Only taking 13 rounds seems fair at the least."
For a universal ruling which will affect all teams within the tournament "being real" or assuming outcomes is unacceptable. Rules and guidelines are in place to give a level playing field not to accommodate opinion.
"let's say it comes down to two teams with equal records in the playoffs, and we look at rounds for/rounds against for seeding purposes. Why should WE be penalized by not having as many rounds for as another team, isn't 13 rounds a reasonable way to keep our total rounds for somewhere in the neighborhood of the other teams with as many wins?"
Assuming this situation of tie-break occurred, would it be fair for the OTHER team if you had +13 rounds which you didn't win? We cannot account for a "reasonable neighbourhood" because that again requires the influence of opinion and estimation. It's not fair or just however accurate it may appear.
I'm with Deuce and Nittany on the "win percentage" system. It was a good idea.
On the subject of Druz's team - the rules were set out that preference would be given to CSR players with other teams being considered. There was never an "Entirely CSR Members Only" rule in place. Since Druz qualified as a new member at the time he was entitled to sign up a team. He would have been even if he hadn't been a member. His application was accepted and there wasn't a single complaint because either everyone understood the admission rules or there were no qualms with his authenticity. If you had a problem with it - why didn't you say something at the time instead of using the "omission" as an accusation against others now?
"In any case it probably won't have an effect in the final standings, and there isn't any money involved and I would think first tie breaker would be head to head anyways? "
I agree. Hopefully it won't come down to rounds. A head to head would also be a fair decision tool.
I don't know what money has to do with this.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2004, 02:37:32 PM »
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In the first place, I was the one who was bitching the most. Then I decided not to play. Then deuce hounded me and then my friend wanted to play. At that point I didn't care who played or how badly I got beat; hence not a peep out of me when druz signed up.
I think the 13-0 is fair, though I have no idea why you need to keep track of the rounds. If there is a tie at the end, go to a head to head record. 
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2004, 02:42:51 PM »
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All I meant by the money statement was that bottom line is this is supposed to be fun and if by some strange occurence final standings came down to round wins the team that lost that tie break would not have lost anything more than a position in the standings. Yeah it would suck if a team ended up in second because of a technicality like this but so what?
As long as you had fun for 7 weeks playing matches would you lose sleep over finishing second?
I've gotten my ass handed to me 2 weeks in a row, but I've had fun because the couple kills I got were against guys that wipe the floor with me on a regular basis. I also recognize that being in a controlled environment playing against superior competition will make me a better player.
As for the 13-0 versus 1-0 for a forfeit I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on which is a more fair solution.
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Deuce
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2004, 03:06:55 PM »
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ok this is going off my percentage idea:
tie breakers would be based off your percentage of winning rounds. since this would be the method of tie breaking, a forfeit would be considered 1-0 instead of 13-0, as the percentage tie breaker would be based on rounds you have actually played. adding a 1-0 record would have minimum impact on your real round win percentage, where as a 13-0 is too much (also keeping in mind that if the map was actually played, you could lose additional matches that would lower your percentage)
with that in mind, this is what the standings would look like with the percentage method in effect for tie breakers.
part of this has already been put in the official scoreboard, the information just hasnt been updated.
thoughts and comments appreciated.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2004, 05:10:00 PM »
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So take your bias and hate somewhere else please.
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There's no need to say things like that. I don't hate anyone here and I'm not biased against or for anyone either.
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Nittany
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2004, 01:59:42 AM »
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""You also have to understand, that if the match was actually played, we'd probably take more then 13 rounds. Only taking 13 rounds seems fair at the least."
For a universal ruling which will affect all teams within the tournament "being real" or assuming outcomes is unacceptable. Rules and guidelines are in place to give a level playing field not to accommodate opinion."
Well, how am I supposed to give my input without giving my opinion? I never asked you to make a universal rule based off of assuming outcomes. You can't say that the 1-0 isn't flawed and all we were asking for was 13 rounds, that was our input our universal ruling suggestion.
Grounded, I know you don't hate anyone here. Doesn't go for everyone.
"On the subject of Druz's team - the rules were set out that preference would be given to CSR players with other teams being considered. There was never an "Entirely CSR Members Only" rule in place. Since Druz qualified as a new member at the time he was entitled to sign up a team. He would have been even if he hadn't been a member. His application was accepted and there wasn't a single complaint because either everyone understood the admission rules or there were no qualms with his authenticity. If you had a problem with it - why didn't you say something at the time instead of using the "omission" as an accusation against others now?"
I'll explain this again. I never had a problem with it, but people that complained about John and I playing together, NEVER RAISED A WORD OF COMPLAINT against druz making a super team (that means playing with the people he normally plays with). Wouldn't you expect if someone didn't want John and I to play together on a team due to our skill level, they would atleast question the skill level of druz's team? No, none of them did, not a single one, even when John raised this point in defense of us playing together, none of the people complaining about John and I playing together cared. They only cared about John and I playing together that clearly leads me to believe that some people raised this concern not solely based on our skill level, but a problem with either John or I/both of us.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2004, 02:21:39 AM »
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I feel that in a small and well organized tournament such as this, a rematch is inevitable.
Until the match is played, 1 round awarded to Nittanys team seems fair to me. The match can't go unplayed and shouldn't. It messes up the scoreboard completely for both pbj and the competing teams.
Play the match, it'll solve everything.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2004, 07:38:26 AM »
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Alright, lets agree to disagree. 1 point on the board and a win significantly reduces the overall score of that team. 13 points and a win apparently gives too much from what some people are saying (or perhaps not enough). Why not just make a new column in the scoreboard that says "not played" and create another week for make ups. This way your not screwing up stats for everyone. If I play Druz's team (never seen him play yet) and loose badly (24-0) then play PBJ (just need an example) and win all rounds, then get a noshow win from a team I was expecting to win hardcore against, we're looking at what? 24-24 for my points, 25-24 or 36-24. As you can see.. a big difference, when I could have been expecting 48-24. I'm just using the extremes here, but you get the picture.
What am I getting at? Scrap the points system unless you are going to account for 100% of all the points! All 840 of them. What I mean by scrap, is leave them there for the fun of seeing them, but not use them for scoring purposes.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2004, 07:49:17 AM »
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Wouldn't you expect if someone didn't want John and I to play together on a team due to our skill level, they would atleast question the skill level of druz's team? No, none of them did, not a single one, even when John raised this point in defense of us playing together, none of the people complaining about John and I playing together cared. They only cared about John and I playing together that clearly leads me to believe that some people raised this concern not solely based on our skill level, but a problem with either John or I/both of us.
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Eh heh, I think we all would rather let our teams get owned by druz's for the sake of seeing him take you down too. 
...I'm joking of course.  For my team at least, we signed up after the whole "stacking teams with awesome players" debate, and we signed up knowing that we would be losing to your team (and probably everyone else), so I can't exactly see why we would care who we were playing against.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2004, 08:00:36 AM »
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| If I play Druz's team (never seen him play yet) and loose badly (24-0) then play PBJ (just need an example) and win all rounds, then get a noshow win from a team I was expecting to win hardcore against, we're looking at what? 24-24 for my points, 25-24 or 36-24. As you can see.. a big difference, when I could have been expecting 48-24. I'm just using the extremes here, but you get the picture. |
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Okay, I'm getting really confused now. I thought it was 3 points for a win. I think maybe Nub's mixing terminology here, because they way I figure his above scenario, his team would have 9 points in the tourney regardless of the actual number of rounds won. It doesn't matter if it's 25-24 or 48-24 unless at the end of all this there is another team with 9 points, in which case, play a tie-breaker, or use Deuce's round's-won-percentage. This doesn't seem hard to me.
The only thing we're still stuck on is the 1-0 for a forfeit or 13-0. The 13-0 people say it's not fair to get punished by getting only 1 round when they could have had 4 or 13 or even 24 if they got to play. The 1-0 people say that it's not fair for a team to "earn" 13 rounds for a match where they didn't have to win a single one of those 13.
The only thing to do is wait for JB to make a call or some up with something better. He's in charge, and once he's made a call, nobody's got any right to complain about that.
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[Wumpa] Porter
--Silent, professional, lethal... sometimes.
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2004, 08:34:59 AM »
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What am I getting at? Scrap the points system unless you are going to account for 100% of all the points! All 840 of them. What I mean by scrap, is leave them there for the fun of seeing them, but not use them for scoring purposes.
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Makes sense to me. The possibility of needing a tie break is unlikey and, like Skip said, can be resolved by playing a match. Ideally, all matches would be played, but if some do eventually get forfeited it would be a shame to decide things based on rounds. It's not like this stuff can't be changed now that we've started 
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Nubbinator
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2004, 01:41:25 PM »
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| If I play Druz's team (never seen him play yet) and loose badly (24-0) then play PBJ (just need an example) and win all rounds, then get a noshow win from a team I was expecting to win hardcore against, we're looking at what? 24-24 for my points, 25-24 or 36-24. As you can see.. a big difference, when I could have been expecting 48-24. I'm just using the extremes here, but you get the picture. |
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Okay, I'm getting really confused now. I thought it was 3 points for a win. I think maybe Nub's mixing terminology here, because they way I figure his above scenario, his team would have 9 points in the tourney regardless of the actual number of rounds won. It doesn't matter if it's 25-24 or 48-24 unless at the end of all this there is another team with 9 points, in which case, play a tie-breaker, or use Deuce's round's-won-percentage. This doesn't seem hard to me.
The only thing we're still stuck on is the 1-0 for a forfeit or 13-0. The 13-0 people say it's not fair to get punished by getting only 1 round when they could have had 4 or 13 or even 24 if they got to play. The 1-0 people say that it's not fair for a team to "earn" 13 rounds for a match where they didn't have to win a single one of those 13.
The only thing to do is wait for JB to make a call or some up with something better. He's in charge, and once he's made a call, nobody's got any right to complain about that.
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Yeah.. that "points" was supposed to be "rounds". But when your at work and writing large posts between calls, you can't be expected to get everything right
To the last paragraph, I also wanted to point out that nobody has been complaining, just trying to show their view on it. I'm sure JB will make a decision that will make the most sense, but it never hurts <pauses to take a call> to have people let you know their opinions so you can get all the info you need.
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-=BA=- Through and through.
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Enialator
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2004, 03:59:21 PM »
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Hey Nittany why if mentioned in the first post about two seperate ace's it was not in your play back. I really enjoyed reading it untill something as huge as an accomplishment, wheteher you were messing around or not you dont mention my greastes achievemnet in the CSR world to date!? Definately a reason why you would not mention something that had so much discussion from the original post from Deuce! Thanks Deuce for the props, little do you guys know I had spilled a drink and had pushed my mouse out of the way and the next thing I knew they were all dead! Then the second time Iwas using my mouse hand and mouse at the same time to wipe up the spill and oh my god it happened again!
Trully though I have to give my thanks to Biggums, Iwas so pissed that he left before the full rounds were done I got a surge of adrenaline! I was like "Skip lets just go RAMBO ON THEM, cant believe Biggums left that !, *, #, BLEEP, BLEEP, NOT KNOWING OLE SLEEPY HEAD HAD TO GET UP IN THE MORNING! Poor baby I know he needs all the beauty sleep he can get! But dang two aces! I am ordering myself a small plastic trophy! I do not care if we come in dead last those two aces were pure exstasy, thanks again Nittany for the props! Hey you get any aces in that match?
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Kaoz
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2004, 10:51:53 PM »
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yeah, he did. so did I.
and don't take stuff that personally bro
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Nittany
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2004, 01:44:20 AM »
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Eh heh, I think we all would rather let our teams get owned by druz's for the sake of seeing him take you down too.
...I'm joking of course. For my team at least, we signed up after the whole "stacking teams with awesome players" debate, and we signed up knowing that we would be losing to your team (and probably everyone else), so I can't exactly see why we would care who we were playing against.
Well, your team may have signed up after, but I remember you complaining about John and I playing together and said you wouldn't participate.
Here you go for a refresher
I was considering playing until I saw Nittany and Kaoz's posts.
Edit-- No offense to either one of you of course. You know I have a lot of respect for both of you, but it just won't be fun to play against a team like that in a competitive situation. If I wanted to get my ass handed to me like that, I'd go join CAL.
• Last Edit: June 23, 2004, 09:43:06 pm by Porter •
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www.mofothis.com
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TheeKiller
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2004, 01:51:39 AM »
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+karma
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| If you still quetion this get me and as many of your friends in one room or a hall way and I'll use a rubber knife and see how many of you I can smack with it! |
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eni lmao
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Yuna
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2004, 09:20:41 AM »
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Here you go for a refresher
I was considering playing until I saw Nittany and Kaoz's posts.
Edit-- No offense to either one of you of course. You know I have a lot of respect for both of you, but it just won't be fun to play against a team like that in a competitive situation. If I wanted to get my ass handed to me like that, I'd go join CAL.
• Last Edit: June 23, 2004, 09:43:06 pm by Porter • |
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Yeah, that was all me. I convinced everyone to throw the "I have to win to play" attitude out and just play for the fun of it. So that's what we did.
Porter probably still wouldn't be playing if it wasn't for me asking (begging a little) him to.
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| « Last Edit: July 31, 2004, 09:21:50 AM by Yuna » |
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f.k.a. [Wumpa] Wannabe, [Guardian] Yuna
n.k.a. [Wumpa] Yuna
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Justboy
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Re:[pbJ] Scores two wins
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2004, 04:12:05 PM »
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Elaborate on this "begging" business please. Would it involve ragged clothing at all? 
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Escape artists never die.
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