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Topic: All right everyone listen up (Read 154 times)
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Holy Grail
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All right everyone listen up
« on: July 14, 2003, 11:00:20 PM »
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Ok, now... Im starting to get a little disappointed here...
Ive had my fair share of experience in Counter Strike communities... it first started with my Uncles server... but he didnt have a web site or anything fancy like that... then I went on to Eaglez Nest... I was tehre for 2 years or so... the server was a great place to start with, then things went to hell... the regulars got demanding, the admins abuse except for 2... my self and empty (this was after the Wumpas had left). Eagle started to not care, so eventually, it was me and empty trying to run the server, two 15 year olds that were more mature than everyone else on teh server. That may sound like I'm playing myself up, but it is the honest truth. The admins there were extremely immature, the regulars aswell. Even the 30 year olds were immature, it was a sore sight, they would bicker between each other non-stop. It was not a fun place to be, it was a place to go and argue. But, eventually, the server died.
Next I moved on to The Mosh Pit, it was a 16 man server, hosted by the 2 PC guys, a clan that played quite regularily on Eaglez Nest... I was pretty good friends with the owners, dabeave, Elshifto, Grim... everything went fine and dandy... but again, teh regulars went to hell... they began bitching and complaining about every little thing. Arguments would break out between the regulars, and sometimes the admins. The admins this time were a nice improvement, and there was soem good structure to the admin team. However, the fact that the owners no longer could have fun on their own server due to the regulars, they stopped playing all together. They then decided to shut down the server, why pay for something your not gonna play on? They could have just said, ok, its done with, but they decided to go out with a bit of a bang. They wanted to see just how efficent our admin team was, so they hacked on their own server. This caused chaos, however, it was their server, and the server was closing in a week anyways... not much harm done.
And here I am now, at CSR, on the admin team. A wonderful little community, with a very good staff team headed by Ryo, Ribs, Porter, MM, Justboy... those are just the few that come to mind. We have a very stong admin team in my opinion, well chosen, mythotical thinkers that try and make sure that every decision they make is a wise one. Communication is very key to a good admin team, and I feel we communicate very well. This community is a wonderful place to be, I think everyone needs to step back and realize that.
The moral of the story. Look at the 2 examples I posted above about communities dieing... what are the 2 links involved? The regulars started to complain about every last thing, everything... They began fighting between themselves aswell, they complained to teh admins non-stop. That is why Eagle stopped caring, that is why Elshifto decided to shut down the server. The relationships in teh communities died due to the way everyone treated each other. So heres my 3rd attempt, and its a wonderful community. But Im starting to see what I saw in the other 2 communities. Fights between regulars... constant bickering, nothing seems good enough. Guys, its just a game... you guys need to relax, take a deep breath, and shoot their brains out in the game. I would hate to see the same thing happen to this community aswell. So everyone just lighten up, and if you feel you have to take your anger out on something, grab a pillow for god sakes...
Thats my story, I hope you guys take teh time to read this long winded post lol. Took me a while, but guys, I think its worth it.
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Holy Grail
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2003, 11:02:48 PM »
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lol, as anyone that actually knows me here, its uncommon for me to write a really long post lol (Raven and Porter can attest to that  ). I only make long posts if its important, so Id like everyone to take a minute and read my post lol... it could be of some good
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Deuce
CSR Super Ultra Mega Nerd
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2003, 11:17:39 PM »
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for those of you who have low attention spans..i will take a minute out of my time to sum up
EAGLEZ NEST = GOOD
EAGLEZ NEST
+COMPLAINING
+BICKERING = BAD
NO MORE EAGLEZ NEST
THE MOSH PIT = GOOD
THE MOSH PIT
+COMPLAINING
+BICKERING = BAD
NO MORE MOSH PIT
CSR = GOOD
CSR
+COMPLAINING
+BICKERING = BAD
NO MORE CSR!!
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Deuce
CSR Super Ultra Mega Nerd
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2003, 11:18:30 PM »
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and with that out of the way, i agree 100%. its rather annoying to listen to people argue during the game.
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ViTeS
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2003, 11:49:43 PM »
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LOL hate to say it but thats how ever server has ended. SR CSR(orignal).
CSReloaded has the bickering, the complaining, admins demanding more the regulars demanding more
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StealthMode
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2003, 01:11:32 AM »
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IN the end the people who pay the RG bill are the only ones who should get to say anything concerning the server....
Far as the other stuff? Well Grail, when you got admins spouting they will kick for the word N00B being used on server, what do you honestly expect? When you have NO AWP, and NO FF, what do you really expect? The server reaks of n00bisms, but is unwilling to accept that its a n00b server. I mean yeah many of us vets play on it, but honestly man, look through a LOT of these posts, and what do you see? The community whining about this, that, and the other.
Many servers stay ALIVE in communities you know why?
The regs dont pay the bills, and the owners know that, and in the end its the owners who decide if the server dies or not.
The admin team does not contatin people who ph33r the word n00b.
The owners could give two shits what the regs want, cause it isnt the regs server.
And these same communities BOAST ff and awp, and this is the kicker, FREQUENTLY EMPLOY THE USE OF FOUL LANGUAGE! Why? Not to dis, cause most anyone knows when cursing in cs, its a way to BLOW OFF STEAM, and most times its laughable, even the guy who does it winds up laughing as they realize how funny they sound, and in the end IT CAUSES PLEASURE!!!
Finally, because there are DIE HARD cs addicts out there, that dont run the first sign of trouble....
I'll give you a prime example of a server like this.
Mine.
STEALTHS WEEDED UP CS BARRACKS...
formerly, Blood Angel Corps CS Barracks...
When I resigned from bac, and was clanless, I set my server up for freakin fun. IT had custom sounds you had to dl (about 20 of em totalling 4-500k), every other map was custom (300 maps in all), me and two others adminned it, it had hlg, vac, sm, atac, ff, awp-mod (so CLIENTS could vote for awp or not), and you know what? It was filled up 24-7, by other clans, my friends, and my ENEMIES. Wanna knw why? Someone cried foul, I paid attention. I allowed my admins FULL access, cause I trust them, I let them have the ability to CLIP or NOCLIP themselves, to spectate and catch wallhacks, I let them ban for offenses such as prolonged harrassment (harrangin a player after they asked you to stop nicely), cheating, talkin smack, etc.
In the end....it died because I couldnt afford it anymore. I had other stuff I needed to take care of. But you know what, EVERYONE that came on my server told me they would pay for it if necessary. You know why? Cause it was a HARDCORE server. First thing you saw as you joined...
N00Bs welcome, you whine too much though, you will go the way of the hacker.....can you say banned.cfg?
The only thing I see killing this server atm, is its lack of options. No cal clans will play here cause of the no awp rule. No HARDCORE cs players will play here cause of no FF. N00bies tend to flock to it, and cry hacker every time they get owned, cause some of us vets hang on it cause our friends insist on playing here.
Some other factors which cause communities to die.
Hackers.
Script kiddies.
Spam.
Lack of admins on when needed (although I have seen great improvement in this lately).
Senseless n00b sounding babble from members of the admin team (sorry but I cant get over that " I'll kick all users of the word....n00b" comment by neo-sable).
And most importantly....stagnation.
This community started to stagnate in my opinion a few months back, however some changes were made and new life has been breathed into the server (some new faces showin up more often now). For the most part its not too bad, if you can look past the no awp, no ff parts. I personally believe that should always be up to whoevers in server (eg: vote_awp, vote_pistols, vote_shottie, vote_ff, vote_gravity democracy style plugins). But in this community thats not the case. What you have here, is many opinions of a perfect server, that honestly shouldnt be considered. The only opinions that truely matter here are the people who pay the bills. And this server should be what THEY want, not what everyone else wants.
There is more, but my opinion is commonly known about csr. Sometimes its very negative, sometimes it mediocre, sometimes its nice. But as long as your having say 100 different people from around two or more countries hangin on the same site/server. Your going to have conflict, and that is just simple truth. How the community deals with that, is what will determine if it sinks or swims. Most try to be positive, but then again a lot (like me) try to be positive until we see something negative, then we try to rebut politely, and others jump in on us, then we have no choice but to be negative, and point out fallacy....stepping all over policies in the process.
This community in particular seems to like to add turmoil to an already troubling situation....
Case in point....
We kick StealthBullet and Duck for their attitudes and their comments about how they took over and blah blah blah (bein immature snots, and trying to stir up sh!t).
So ok they are kicked from our clan... and SPAM csr forums needlessly because of it. Talkin smack the whole while.
How does csr remedy this situation? Gives them their very own clan forum. THats kinda a step in the wrong direction if you ask me. And in a way that was a slap to the face of holy. Cause we said hey, these guys have problems following the rules, so we kicked em, and csr said, oh thats ok, they can curse, and talk sh!t all they want, we'll give em a forum too...
Now when you have a top echelon that does stuff like that, no wonder communities die....
And you forgot to mention the two main reasons that the pit died....
They banned Frag Dat Ass for owning them.
And I caught em hacking their own server under fake clan/player names. (they lied about it, until after they shut the server down, the lies is what broke it, if they woulda came right out and said yeah we were hacking it to test the admins, or even just said yeah, NOT NO IT WASNT ANY OF US! the community woulda stayed, but they basicly told the community we are untrustworthy of your friendship/time).
The nest died cause Eagle moved. If not it would still be the cess pool it was today...
And lastly, to anyone that bothers to actually read this entire post before replying regardless of whether its to reply postively or with comments such as Stealth you suck stfu, thanks for taking the time...
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| « Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 01:30:04 AM by StealthMode » |
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Father Ribs
Admin Team, -TWB-
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2003, 08:40:53 AM »
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Wow...lot to read there from a couple of you...
Stealth, Neo was busting chops man...there isn't a more laid-back guy than Neo. If he's ever admin_slapped a guy, I've never seen it, and he was admin on the previous CSR for a year too.
Love it hate it, everyone in CSR likes to mix it up...either because they're young and think they know everything...or because they're older and they think they know everything...maybe some people just because they're arses. But tell me...you have a sibling? You ever fight? You care for them any less?
As Stealth said, things are run the way they are because that's what the people who own CSR and the people they work with want it to be like. People can whine and bitch and complain all they like, but except for the old CSR funds, how many of you have donated to keep CSR going since Yu^rei started paying for it out of his pocket?
There are always going to be issues. There is always going to be a new person causing problems. There is always going to be disagreement with how management operates. We do the best we can, and a lot of people put a lot of time into the server, site and community. I think they've all done a damn fine job, even going back to SR days.
Arguing and debate shouldn't bother any of you...personally. Humans are a weird kind of pack animal, they will jockey for position until the day they die, it's a hardwired survival instinct. It's when the discussion turns /personal/ that communities begin to break down.
I'll leave it at that for now.
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SR: R. I. P. 2001
CSR: R. I. P. 1/22/2003
CSR-P: GGZ
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MysteryMachine
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2003, 11:56:15 AM »
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I have to agree with Ribs. Nuff said.
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Kaoz
Admin Team
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2003, 09:16:11 PM »
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| When you have NO AWP, and NO FF, what do you really expect? The server reaks of n00bisms, but is unwilling to accept that its a n00b server. I mean yeah many of us vets play on it, but honestly man, look through a LOT of these posts, and what do you see? The community whining about this, that, and the other. |
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This part just kept ringing in my ears... He has a point, this server does reaks(sp?) of noobism, but nice noobs and thats why I'm here, I certainly don't NEED to come here, In fact, this is the only server i pub on for CS, and i would be better off not pubbing at all and just scrimming with my clan. Alot of the things SM said i really agree with, I read the whole post, and i found that one paragraph to really ring true to me
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-=]H[=-Smokey
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2003, 11:59:58 PM »
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Wow, Stealthmode, u almost hit it right on the dot... other than Eagle'z Nest was not only shut down because of Eagle moving, but moreless the lack of interest by Eagle who only left it up and running because he really needed some friends and attention I believe, or because they thought of him as a god in a way since he had unlimited power and when u won his trust and approval, you could dick around with the server with shitloads. With the abusive admins such as Meanbastard... anyone remember him? eh Wumpas? I remember him the most, when I was a noob, he use to ban me for the fun of it, I think he banned me like 7-8 times before he gave Grail admin... But you can't like say everyone was totally bad in Eagle'z, Grail came out of there... Holy came out of there... Empty was a great admin... not really recognized... but really fair and equal... and dont forget nitzer, duh, one of the favs. I dont want to speak about the mosh pit, just gives me anger grrr..  lol
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Eagle'z Nest 2000-2003 R.I.P
Mosh Pit 2002-2003 R.I.P
CSR-Phoenix 2003 Rock On 
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Nittany
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2003, 12:20:44 AM »
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I dunno this community seems pretty tough to break.
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www.mofothis.com
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StealthMode
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2003, 12:30:00 AM »
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Sorry for the stuff about neo_sable then, I didnt know he was just blowing off steam, I thought he was dead serious about it....
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Porter
[Wumpa]
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2003, 12:13:28 PM »
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I think all of you have valid points (though some points may be more accurate than others). The one I want to concentrate on is CSR's durability. Much like the Phoenix we use as our mascot now, CSR has had a lot of periods of death and rebirth. The goal this time around is to break that cycle.
While everything SM said (and that Deuce made so much more clear) is accurate, the one thing that is missing from CSR is the money. When we were still SR, that was not an issue since Eugene and Davin paid for our fun. Other conflicts shut that community down. The original CSR had funding issues from the get-go, which remained a constant point of argument among pretty much everybody. The second CSR was arguably too quickly cobbled together without the organization it needed to survive long.
This CSR has tried to take the best from all the previous incarnations and learn from all of the worst. The underlying player values remain (though they are currently not observed if the most popular maps around here are any indication), the fabulous and charismatic people remain, the management works harmoniously together (having worked out the vast majority of there differences by now), and the server will always be paid for.
This last point hasn't been included in anyone else's formulas up till now, but I think it is important. Yu^rei has purposefully avoided these boards and pretty much any discussion about CSR in general because that is the best way. If he knew about some of the things that went on here, I wouldn't at all blame him if he wanted to act a lot like Sean did and dump the whole thing. Regardless, he is happy knowing that he is providing such a wonderful place for so many people. He has never asked for gratitude or thanks, has never asked for special treatment (he doesn't even have admin privileges in the server or the forums!), and has never even asked for help in covering the $84.95 he pays every month for us to have a good time here. He has had a PayPal account set up since soon after this version of CSR opened, and to the best of my knowledge has not gotten a single dontation (other than the release of the remaining funds from Sean's CSR). So while donations aren't needed or even solicited, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be appreciated.
My entire point boils down to this: As much as you guys feel the urge to complain and bicker, you need to consider all the things you are getting without having to pay a single cent yourself before you complain about what you're not getting or aren't happy with. If you really can't stand it, feel free to go to one of those servers where "The owners could give two shits what the regs want" or rent your own for $80 a month. Otherwise be helpful and thankful for what we have...and maybe even send yu^rei a dollar or two. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
--Silent, professional, lethal... sometimes.
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Yuna
[Wumpa]
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2003, 08:35:02 PM »
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I have to agree with both Porter and Ribs on this one. I think Yu^rei is very smart for staying away from the forums. I wouldn't be very happy to know that some of the stuff that is posted is what i was spending almost $90 to support. I also think that everyone should be grateful for all of the effort the admins and regulars put into keeping this server a great place to play. The no AWP, no FF rules have always been a part of the server and if you don't like those rules you need to find a new place to play. Come here to have fun and shoot the crap out of people you know. Don't argue and complain about everything, all it does is cause more arguing and complaing, which doesn't help anyone. You have a valid point, post it or PM an admin, but save the trash talking and name calling for another time and place. It will never be acceptable here and some of you just need to realize that.
That's all I've got about the negativity, but I do want to add one more thing. Thanks to all the admins and everyone here who keep this place as nice as it can be and thanks to Yu^rei for supporting our fragging habits! 
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f.k.a. [Wumpa] Wannabe, [Guardian] Yuna
n.k.a. [Wumpa] Yuna
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DizZucK.
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2003, 11:03:38 AM »
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haaha, how is it everytime stealthchode wants to say something he has to bring up us in it? and then when we say something about them they start crying?? o and you think the only reason we post stupid thingz to get you pissed it cuz you get us out of ur ogl clan, lol i dont want to be in it, that is ok, the only reason i post stupid things to get you pissed is because it is funny. yep funny, how you guys sit there and start crying.
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| « Last Edit: July 20, 2003, 11:08:46 AM by DizZucK. » |
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Deuce
CSR Super Ultra Mega Nerd
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2003, 11:19:35 AM »
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seriously dude..you have this amazing ability to take any forum topic, and totally destroy it by bring your presence to it.. cause watch..this post is gonna go from talking about csr, to now you and holy fighting with each other AGAIN.
some of us could care less about you and your little dispute with others.
which again brings me to a constant theme with many people in the forum..why hasnt he been banned yet?
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StealthMode
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Re:All right everyone listen up
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2003, 02:34:51 PM »
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Sigh. Duck get a life, why were you kicked from HOLY? What did you and ur immature cousin do afterwards? What do you continue to do to this day?
Answer to #1: Because you and your immature cousin started shit with the leadership.
Answer to #2: Spammed our forums with bs.
Answer to #3 Spam our forums with bs.
Now it has been said in another topic for you to stay out of our forums, but I see that as recent as yesterday you are in there posting up more of your bs. You've been warned twice now to stop the bs, but you push on.
Either listen to the admins warning and stay the fawk out of our forums. OR, push on and get banned. Choice is yours. Far as my allegations? Well they are still stickeys in the forum, least some of em are. As well as the Trillian logs. I stated fact, I suggest you dont rebut with fallacy. You'll just look like a tool (woops forget I said that, you already do look like one).
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