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Topic: Played your server yesterday (Read 648 times)
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.abysmal.
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Played your server yesterday
« on: September 23, 2003, 09:22:44 AM »
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Had a great time. Me and 3 buds played and enjoyed the atmosphere. No admin abuse (we did fairly well) and nice people. I played under this name and Rasputin. Just wanted to compliment you on the digs.
BTW, the AWP was supposed to be banned but wasn't and one of the admins said you were waiting for adminmod to be updated. Well, don't hold your breath. You can, however, dl the CS16 plugin which allows you to ban weapons, including the shield. That way you can prevent the shield exploit and crash bugs while allowing players the use of the "lastinv" command. Just an FYI if you didn't know.
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2003, 09:41:29 AM »
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yeah you were tearing it up pretty bad in the server... made me feel a little better the few times i killed you 
which 1.6 plugin are you referring to?
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Porter
[Wumpa]
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2003, 10:55:48 AM »
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The same one I've been following in the AdminMod forums. My time and it's stability are the only two things slowing us down right now. That and maybe the AdminMod dev team not getting a release out the door for us to use. In any case, thanks for the kind words. Hope to see you back soon!
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[Wumpa] Porter
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neo_sable
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2003, 11:27:58 AM »
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Welcome to the club 
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Father Ribs
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2003, 02:25:20 PM »
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Hey, welcome to the forums. One thing, I was pretty light on your guys since I didn't recognize your names, but if the sides get as crazy-unbalance as there were for the couple maps I was there, try to spread yourselves across the two teams.
We've tried using PTB to balance sides but most people have found that to be too heavy-handed, and as admins we don't like to kill people to make them switch sides. Welcome to the server, we can always use some new gunslingers (and for any who weren't there, these folk were pretty impressive).
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SR: R. I. P. 2001
CSR: R. I. P. 1/22/2003
CSR-P: GGZ
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Kaoz
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2003, 02:34:54 PM »
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oOoOoOo
competition?
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| « Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 02:36:17 PM by Kaoz » |
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2003, 02:41:33 PM »
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they might smoke u... he was like 38-5 or something close to that.. but before dying was like 18-0
although in defense to the players on the server being slaughtered... it was militia... they were Ts on the roof... and there was a WHOLE LOT OF AWPIN GOING ON
it was makin me mad and I was a T lol
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| « Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 02:42:10 PM by Fotty » |
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Kaoz
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2003, 02:59:02 PM »
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smoke me? oOoOoOoOoOo
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.abysmal.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2003, 03:22:12 PM »
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Porter I have been running that plugin on my server since Saturday with no problems at all. The third version that was released eliminated many of the problems. It is a great lil plugin.
Ribs I understand and fully admit that I was whoring like mad and that me and my buds were stacking. I run a pretty popular gaming community with about 900-1200 hardcore regulars on my CS server. We have strict rules about team stacking on our server so when we venture out to others we tend to team up. We will refrain from that in the future. As for the AWP, I am terrible with it so I try to practice as much as I can. I only bought it after the other team started buying it. I can kill just as well with other weapons.
Anyway, thanks for the good vibe on the server and we'll see you again soon.
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| « Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 03:23:40 PM by .abysmal. » |
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[Guardian] Alkali
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2003, 03:42:26 PM »
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Nice to see a new face, and welcome to the community. I hope you will enjoy it, and have fun on the server! 
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My Games Collection
My Rig Here
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rich-hobo
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2003, 03:59:55 PM »
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smoke kaoz, i don't think anyone in csr can actually truely "smoke" kaoz, but he's new you never know
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.abysmal.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2003, 04:18:44 PM »
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Because I am a stat whore and when we play other servers we keep score to see who does the best, I can tell you that on 9 maps yesterday I went 318-71. On Aztec I went 28-4 and the other team had a myg0t member on it by the name of p33pUs. Don't know Kaoz at all but I think the people on the server yesterday can vouch that I ain't all that bad a player.
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[Guardian] Alkali
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2003, 04:25:05 PM »
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Yeah but you just wait and we will show you and your mates some friendly competitiveness...
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My Games Collection
My Rig Here
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Hostage Humper
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2003, 04:34:21 PM »
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welcome and whats the ip for your server we could have some cross playing going on looking forward to playing more .
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If you cant evolve the you will die!
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Justboy
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2003, 04:38:30 PM »
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900-1200 hardcore regulars? Sounds like my local pub. If it were multiplied in size 100 times...
Do we know this server/community? Cos anywhere with 900 regulars must be pretty special...
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Escape artists never die.
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Kaoz
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2003, 05:06:30 PM »
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tom u are a funny funny kilt wearing face painter (zing!)
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.abysmal.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2003, 06:48:02 PM »
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I never advertise my server in other communities without permission as I find it rude and tacky. But, since you guys asked, the URL is www. purebedlam.org. We have two servers, one hosted by Gamedaemons in VA and another affiliated server in CA hosted currently by ArtofWar Central but soon to be a GD server also. Both are 20 man pubs that are almost impossible to join after about 3 during school and all day on weekends and the summers. We have been gaming together for about 2 and a half years now and have built up a very loyal and very large base of regulars. The competition is very stiff and we have several Cal-i level players who stop in from time to time to frag. The host clan is Nm8 (inmate) of which I am the founder and leader. My true game alias is Nm8 | Forgivaness. Feel free to stop in and frag any time but bring your "A" game.
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dev
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2003, 06:55:49 PM »
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Hey nice to see some new faces...
man i wish that i could actually play... bah
p.s. i can take kaoz.... 
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Kaoz
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2003, 07:15:49 PM »
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any specific names of cal-i players?
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.abysmal.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2003, 07:28:07 PM »
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Yes I know who they are and have confirmed they are legit. However, since they play there under alias to avoid people bothering them, I respect their privacy.
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Kaoz
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2003, 07:43:47 PM »
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gotcha, do the same quite a bit myself :-p
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[Wumpa]
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2003, 08:09:28 AM »
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Nice site, though I have to point out I couldn't get it to render properly in any browser other than Win-IE-6/5.5 and Mac-Netscape-7. Surprisingly, Opera did the job too on a Mac, but didn't work under Windows.
Even Netscape 7 under Windows didn't render it as I assume you meant it too. That main frame doesn't even show up in Safari or IE on the Mac, Opera on Windows, or even IE 5 under Windows. Was that intentional, or was it just never tested? 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Father Ribs
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2003, 08:18:48 AM »
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Okay...
Porter, you are officially a freak. Most people go to websites for the information ON them, not to see how many browsers can open said site. Sometime I think if you had been my college roommate you would have woken to find me holding a pillow over your face.
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SR: R. I. P. 2001
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2003, 08:22:03 AM »
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lol! Sorry, it kind of happened that way because the site didn't work in the first browser I tried... or the second... or the third. So I couldn't even tell what the site was about until I started trying to find a browser that rendered it properly. 
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2003, 08:25:10 AM »
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oh wait..so your mac..couldnt run the site..but me on my windows..could..hmmm
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2003, 08:35:16 AM »
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did anyone mention mac blows???
I mean who was sitting around at the meeting where they were like:
Mac Executive 1: Ok guys on the adgenda for todays meeting, we are thinking about putting a second button on the mouse so it not only won't feel all retarded like just 1 HUGE Button, but it will also give extra functionality that is essential when working with the computer, and will eliminate the need for the stupid key on the keyboard that no one knows what it is.. but everyone is so proud they can draw without lifting the pencil up
The Rest of the Executives: Nah, next item?
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2003, 08:38:22 AM »
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by the way.. not sure if you all have seen this.. you need sound.. so if u dont have it right now.. its pointless
http://www.ancientspear.com/mac.wmv
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Sub-Zero
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2003, 08:54:46 AM »
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ahh yes i saw u boys yesterday welcome to CSR
Sub
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"We will not fail..."
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2003, 09:03:13 AM »
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no I used to work at a computer retailer so we sold both PC and Macs, and I got my fair share of use on both, but of course now being a developer for windows applications, yeah I am baised...
dont get me wrong.. I know the deal with macs and why they are good versus the PC, I know they have capabilities some beyond the PC...
But I almost break peoples mice everytime i hop on one because i try to right click only to be umm well not left clicking.. u know what i mean...
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Porter
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2003, 09:03:32 AM »
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By the way, nothing is in about that audio clip...at least, not anymore  -- 'cept maybe the part about him making the clip on a Mac. When was the last time you've used a Mac Fotty? 1994?
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Porter
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2003, 09:06:58 AM »
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Oh, and by the way, as of today my Mac has been on and stable for 53 days straight-- no reboots, no crashes.
Windows users?
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2003, 09:12:06 AM »
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my xp pro never crashes... I would say it might have needed a reboot due to error 2 times since I have had XP, which was shortly after its release... while other windows OSes are horrible.. and while some people still hate XP.. I think its pretty stable (pro version anyway.. I havent used home)
anyway, nah the last time I used a mac other than for just BS like surfing the web was probably about 6 months ago..
But I don't want to turn this into a MAC Vs PC debate, because as far as I am concerned they can co-exist peacefully. I think its good that there is market competition.. it makes both sides strive to come out with better products, and we can choose which one we want to use
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2003, 09:20:07 AM »
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So Fotty, you code windows apps? Yuck!
Step away from the darkside man.... start coding on linux, and you'll never want to go back.
Linux - written by programmers, for programmers.
slight
and Deuce - until you atleast TRY an alternative to windows, SHUT UP.
nuff said.
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2003, 10:10:10 AM »
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| Deuce: You're just trying to egg me on. Too bad I've got class to go to now. |
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nothing gets by you Porter
and as i previously stated somewhere slight..i have used a mac for 3D modeling purposes last year. i did not enjoy the experience.
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2003, 10:16:36 AM »
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yeah i code windows apps... haven't given linux a try, but I have heard mixed reviews on it. I am sure it is a decent platform... but the people that pay me money run windows, as does (whats the percentage again?) of the rest of the world... so for the target consumer buying my products, NONE of them run linux, and all of them run windows (even though they make it very hard on me because some of these idiots still run 95 )
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2003, 10:21:49 AM »
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| but the people that pay me money run windows, as does (whats the percentage again?) |
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99.99% last time i checked.
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2003, 10:26:49 AM »
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i think its lower than that
but seriously it is in the high high 90 percentile.. like 96 percent or something... so if i was writing linux apps no one would buy them and i would have no money 
although once the .net framework is ported successfully over to linux that might open up the door for more programming under linux for me... either that or Bill Gates will just find some loop hole where he can buy it
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Father Ribs
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2003, 11:06:00 AM »
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Don't worry, once some idiot manufacturer decides to charge a subscription instead of selling use rights in perpetuity for software (like our dear beloved Valve is doing now), I'm sure things like like linux will take off.
Don't take this as a flame, but Macs are almost like gaming consoles. They are the ultimate controlled environment which means they don't have the disadvantages that PCs, with their near infinite number of configurations, can have. Perhaps things don't crash on a Mac as much as on a pc because you don't have as many opportunities for things to go wrong in a closed system. If MACs were as common as PCs are now, there would be no doubt that the shoe would be on the other foot, would there?
There is no point discussing the relative merits, because Apple and Apple users make it a point of pride to be different, heck that's 50% of their marketing strategy. You might as well be discussing religion if you want civil debate.
PS: Nice movie Fotty. +ggz karma.
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SR: R. I. P. 2001
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2003, 11:14:15 AM »
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i agree ribs...
But I also think one reason why people state linux is more stable than windows is because less people are using it.. the more people that use an OS, the more people that will develop for it.. the more people developing means there are more chances for bugs to be found and uncovered..
I think the fact that linux is open source and there are so many different groups that sell it/give it away makes it very hard to deal with individual problems. But I do give them credit for being the opposer of Microsoft... Im not a microsoft junkie or anything like that... but they are the leader in the software industry for a reason.. I use what works.. if windows was crashing left and right or prevented me from doing what I was trying to.. i would look for an alternative
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2003, 11:33:13 AM »
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| But I also think one reason why people state linux is more stable than windows is because less people are using it.. the more people that use an OS, the more people that will develop for it.. the more people developing means there are more chances for bugs to be found and uncovered.. |
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Oh you silly, silly person. www.sourceforge.net . www.freshmeat.com . Hmmm..... maybe what, 100,000 projects inbetween the 2 sites? Not bad for an OS that according to Deuce 99.99% of the people out there don't use. BTW deuce, according to estimates, 25 million systems are currently running a form of linux, worldwide. This number is increasing at almost twice the rate of M$.
but they are the leader in the software industry for a reason.. I use what works.. if windows was crashing left and right or prevented me from doing what I was trying to.. i would look for an alternative
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Ahh... but we all lived through WinNT, Win95, WinME and the like. They did crash. Repeatedly. People just didn't realize their was an alternative. You don't seem to either. Fotty, you just stated 'I use what works' , but you have never tried an alternative. Thats like saying 'Ford cars run the best', even though you have never tried another vehicle. Your perspective is skewed. You learned to use M$ windoze because that is all you know. Expand your horizons. Give Linux, or BSD, or Solaris, or Minix, or knoppix, or any one of the other OS'es out there a try. I think only then will you come to realize, as I did, that some of these option will suit your needs better.
Open your minds people.
slight
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| « Last Edit: September 24, 2003, 11:35:35 AM by slightcrazed » |
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2003, 12:20:27 PM »
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| Not bad for an OS that according to Deuce 99.99% of the people out there don't use. BTW deuce, according to estimates, 25 million systems are currently running a form of linux, worldwide. |
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NOTE TO SELF - try not to make jokes about operating systems ever again
i know its not 99.99% slight..that was a joke.
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its more like 99.98%
EdIT - i believe i figured out a soultion to the problem that will not only cure all bad posts here..but might even end world hunger.
i call it the "joke" warning alert.
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| « Last Edit: September 24, 2003, 12:42:37 PM by Deuce » |
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Phoenix Knight
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2003, 01:04:51 PM »
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Actually, I can't remember the last time my PC crashed (while I'll bet Porter can). And I haven't had to restart my computer since I've set it up at school.
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Take care and happy fragging!
Your friendly neighborhood Wumpa~
[Wumpa] Phoenix Knight (aka - Raven Knight)
"See you all on the other end of my gun barrel."
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[Guardian] Alkali
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2003, 01:14:21 PM »
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Oh, and by the way, as of today my Mac has been on and stable for 53 days straight-- no reboots, no crashes.
Windows users?
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My friend in Holland re-starts his main Windows 2000 Server machine every 6 months.
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My Games Collection
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2003, 01:46:25 PM »
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cat windoze_users | grep deuce > /dev/null
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2003, 01:57:37 PM »
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well slight as I stated previously, my target consumer audience runs windows, and as that is not going to change any time soon, me working on a non windows platform doesn't suit my needs.
And don't take this as a sarcastic comment, I am seriously looking for insight, but what does Linux do that Windows does not? (all cost factors aside, as my job provides me with software licenses for whatever I need)
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2003, 02:40:27 PM »
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Did not mean to sound sarcastic. No offense meant.
What does Linux do that Windows does not.. hmmm. I guess the answer depends on what you want it to do.
I think the best thing that I can say is that Linux is all about choice and customizability. You can choose to run a GUI, or command line (a fully functional command line, not that pathetic dos like environment that windoze uses). If you do choose command line, you can use any number of shells to communicate with the kernel. If you choose GUI, then you have any number of choices for desktop environment/window managers. Linux is scalable. I have installed Slackware 9.0 on a 486 with 8 MB of memory and still had room left over. I have complete access to source code, and don't have to work around APIs, DLL's and the registry.
On top of that, I think the biggest draw for me to Linux is the community of users and developers. People in the community are really passionate about the OS, and the fundamental change that it represents. It is not just an anti-Microsoft sentiment (although I tend to take that position), but there seems to be a geniune interest in using open-source, and linux in general, as a means of advancing ideas and technology without having those ideas be driven by the almighty dollar. Most of us (linux users) don't want to be force fed products that are 'integrated' into an OS, or have the inner workings of the OS hidden from us. We like choice, we like options, we like freedom. We also like a user environment that doesn't lock us into one way of doing things.
Choice. Gotta love it.
In the end, if someone is happy with windows and wants to stay with it, then fine, I don't have a problem with it. All I ask is that people open their mind to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there are other OS's out there that are worth their time and effort.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2003, 03:12:46 PM »
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This is all wonderful from a theoretical standpoint...an engineer's toy. For ME, the question is "what runs my games, lets me browse the web, and plays my music?" There are many options for most of that, but until you can get my entire game collection to run on linux or on a MAC, it doesn't matter. Does the end-user CARE about command-line? Should an end-user have to deal with command lines ever? Kernels and .dlls and bells and whistles...grandma wants her email, she couldn't care less about what runs the bloody system. Very few people care about the inner workings of their washing machine and who made it. Perhaps the argument should be defined as if we are looking at items from the point of view of joe average or a hobbyist.
You can have a Lambourghini Coutash, but if you can only drive it down 1 in 10 roads, I'll take the T-bird.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2003, 04:11:37 PM »
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This is all wonderful from a theoretical standpoint...an engineer's toy. For ME, the question is "what runs my games, lets me browse the web, and plays my music?" There are many options for most of that, but until you can get my entire game collection to run on linux or on a MAC, it doesn't matter. Does the end-user CARE about command-line? Should an end-user have to deal with command lines ever? Kernels and .dlls and bells and whistles...grandma wants her email, she couldn't care less about what runs the bloody system. Very few people care about the inner workings of their washing machine and who made it. Perhaps the argument should be defined as if we are looking at items from the point of view of joe average or a hobbyist.
You can have a Lambourghini Coutash, but if you can only drive it down 1 in 10 roads, I'll take the T-bird.
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Shouldn't that be 'you want to buy the Countach, but the dealer only shows you the T-bird because he has signed a deal with Ford and is only allowed to sell Ford cars'?
Yes, the average Joe can be happy either way. The 'games' argument asside (yes, most games are not ported to Linux, but this is slowly changing), Linux can do things for the average joe just as well as windoze. Its too bad that 80% of the PCs out there are pre-loaded with windoze, so Joe really never knows that he has an alternative.
Awww shucks.
As for command line? It comes down to productivity. For most people, the only command line they have ever known is DOS. Spend a couple days with a Unix style command line, and you wont want to live without it. Point and click will just seem so...... slow. My hands never leave my keyboard, unless I am gaming.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2003, 04:42:22 PM »
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While I agree with everything Slight has said, I myself layer an extra level on top of it all. linux is quite easily more powerful and flexible than Windows will ever be solely because you can MAKE IT that way. Windows users will ALWAYS be limited by what Billy shoves down your throats. Windows programmers will ALWAYS be stuck using the tools Microsoft provides, whether they are great or suck. With linux, you can make it do whatever you want it to-- literally. You have almost zero restrictions.
Nowadays, ease of use is comparable between linux and Windows. Tenshi and I got an old Pentium 1, 133MHz laptop with 32MB of RAM running FreeBSD 5 in less time than it would take to install Windows-- complete with a KDE 3.1 GUI. The install process is totally guided/automated. Sure you can say switching to linux would be hard, but that's only because you're coming from Windows. A person completely new to computers will pick up ANY OS at pretty much the same rate. As Slighty said, the people who are characteristically "brand new" to computers usually don't get the choice to begin with though, and get force-fed Windows with no idea it's even happening to them.
And from my own personal perspective-- the Mac makes the most sense. I have a GUI that could never be objectively judged better or worse than Windows (though I can work much quicker using it), and I also have that beautiful command line. If it works under unix, it'll work on a Mac too. I get the best of both worlds.
The thing that gets me about Windows is that it's an intellectual black hole. You can pour everything you've got in your mind into a Windows program, and it'll only ever work on Windows. It doesn't make sense to me to spend so much time at that (and fighting Windows APIs!) when you could be writing software that will work on ANY OS, INCLUDING Windows. Check out www.jgoodies.com for a couple examples, or consider this website, which works no matter what kind of computer or operating system you're using. As asbysmal's site (www.purebedlam.org) so vividly (and unfortunately) points out, even WEB programming that is DESIGNED to inherently be cross-platform can be tainted by Microsoft-ism. Whereas our site uses Perl, PHP, MySQL and standards-based HTML (mostly) to communicate with our users no matter what type of OS they prefer. How many of you would be upset if I chose to make this site work ONLY with Netscape v4.75? And it had to be Netscape v4.75 on a Mac? Aren't you all glad that Ryo and I gave you that CHOICE? When you're programming for money, sure it makes sense to focus on the largest user base out there (Windows), but doesn't it make more sense to focus on EVERYBODY? Especially when most times it can be done with little more (or less!) effort?
Again as Slighty said, if it weren't for my games, I'd never leave my Mac (which is a situation I desperately wish they'd change). As it stands right now, the ONLY thing I've done with my PC in the past 3 months is play CS, try to get Steam working and compile plugins for the server. Everything else I can do better and faster on my Mac.... including run this site and server.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2003, 09:38:43 PM »
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OK Fight time... well put Porter in a mac shirt, slight in a lunix shirt and Fotty in a windows shirt.
Ill be the ref, they can go at it for a while, and then bill Gates will come and and kill all of us except Fotty.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2003, 10:29:38 PM »
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Shouldn't that be 'you want to buy the Countach, but the dealer only shows you the T-bird because he has signed a deal with Ford and is only allowed to sell Ford cars'?
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See, here's the point I am trying to make again. It doesn't matter the WHY. The only thing that matters is the WHAT. Theoretically Lucy Liu could fall in love with me and have a torrid affair...but it ain't gonna happen, and it doesn't matter if it's because I'm not rich, or not an actor, or because I'm already married....it ain't gonna happen.
Linux is probably wonderful, and some "famous" people have been paid to do Apple commercials, and tech-heads can give me a million reasons in geek-ese why this or that is wonderful...but if it doesn't fufil my needs, then I don't care about it.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2003, 10:46:12 PM »
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Going back to the car analogy because that is the most simular to "this" discussion...
At one time automobiles were considered hobby items. Everyone was a mechanic. They controlled every factor of their ride experience short of the actual assembly of the device.
Today you have people like Jeep owners who spend all day taking their vehicles apart and putting them back together. You also have some freaks who do things like alter the fuel mixture in their vehicles to get every last theoretical HP out of the car, mod and chip and change every facet of their vehicle.
Then for the other 99.99% of the population, it's four seats, some wheels, and a way to get to the office. It is a tool, and if it performs sufficiently in that regard then no more attention is paid to it.
Computers are heading the same way. Once people looked at computers as the domain of the scientists. Now you'll find a computer on the counter in the local auto-parts store. Grandma gets her email. An unemployed maid uses it to check job listings. I get the movie times and play games.
None of us NEED more of a computer than a few tasks. I mean really, who the heck REALLY needs to have six programs running at once? It's intelectual elitism, which should be kept on college campuses where it belongs, and burned away when you get into the real world.
Granted, there are tasks for which people need that sort of functionality from their OS...people who play with the databases or do animation or design websites...but to give this sort of functionality to the average user and telling them it's "better" is like handing them a couple cans of oil and an oil filter, because it is "better" to change your own oil.
There are problems with MS, but I think half the problem is that there are too many ENGINEERS and not enough concern given to the END USER. How many people use EVERY darn program they have on their computer? I have 171 shortcuts just in my programs folder...how many do you think are to vital programs I run once a week...even once a year? How many functions will never get used?
Look at it as you will, but because we're dealing with 5+ billion people, ONE OS will never satisfy everyone. There is every need for MS as there is for a MAC and a Linux...just as there are $300,000.00 sportscars and $5,000.00 boxes with wheels sharing the same roads.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2003, 10:48:10 PM »
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Whats this all about anyways? So what if some guy came to CSR? there was like a full game of new people today.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2003, 06:16:13 AM »
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well he came to CSR but then came to the forum to compliment the server.. come on mad didn't u read the posts before the OS war started??
anyways slight and porter.. i understand the usefulness of linux and mac...
but like ribs said... what if linux did come preloaded on computers instead of windows.. it would HAVE to become a corporation like MS.. you can't get around that once millions and millions of people that really have no advanced computer knowledge are buying them and need support... i mean the average joe windows user is NOT going to want or know how to compile their own drivers to get something working.. people like windows on a user level because it is plug and play...
I think windows is pretty powerful and there hasn't been anything I haven't been able to do with it that I have wanted to do.. .and Microsoft gives its developers a lot of stuff for free, including documentation, development environements, new technologies... In fact I am working on a speech recognition application on windows right now using microsofts speech SDK that is freely distributed... can't complain about that all too much as I would not be able to write a speech recognition engine myself
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2003, 08:07:31 AM »
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| it would HAVE to become a corporation like MS.. you can't get around that once millions and millions of people that really have no advanced computer knowledge are buying them and need support... |
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http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html. This license covers most open source software, including linux. You know what it says? It says that anyone may modify and distribute an open source program or application, but if they do so that program or application also has to remain under the GLP, and source code must be shown and offered to the public. This means that no company, no one organization will ever own linux. That is what seperates it from proprietary systems. That is what makes it so powerful. With windows, you have to rely on M$ to provide you with 'advanced technologies' (about 90% of which THEY didn't invent). With Linux, Tens of thousands of developers have modified and worked on the source code. Only the best ideas and modifications are incorporated into the kernel, and in the end, the technology advances much faster than it would if Linux were owned by a corporation.
| i mean the average joe windows user is NOT going to want or know how to compile their own drivers to get something working.. people like windows on a user level because it is plug and play... |
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*scratches head* Funny, Linux supports plug and play. I run it on 3 different systems, and have never had to compile my own drivers. Oh well.
OK, I'm going to end my tirade now guys. If you like windows, then fine.... stick with it. I really don't care. Again, all I ask is a little open mindedness.
Ribs, Fotty, some good reading if you ever have the time:
http://steve-parker.org/articles/others/stephenson/
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2003, 08:45:11 AM »
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well my bottom line is if I didn't learn microsoft technologies and programming... i would have no money and no job, and I guess one could say I could possibly be making money writing linux apps or something... the key word is possibly... i AM making a living doing what I do now.. so I have no reason to move away from MS into another type of development
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2003, 11:16:45 AM »
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Specialize at thy own risk.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2003, 11:42:11 AM »
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I think so far so good... i mean I am 23 next month, Im buying a house, my car is fully paid for, I live pretty comfortably, so I can't really complain... I am making very good money and it is all because someone asked me 4 years ago to make an access database for them
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2003, 12:41:26 PM »
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| but like ribs said... what if linux did come preloaded on computers instead of windows.. it would HAVE to become a corporation like MS.. you can't get around that once millions and millions of people that really have no advanced computer knowledge are buying them and need support... |
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You wouldn't be losing any business then, just shifting what the techs need to know to fix it. Slights right-- linux will never be "corporatized," but I don't think you realize how many of us could suddenly make a living providing support for an OS we've been using "underground" for years. Give it a very short while to arrange itself, and you wouldn't have any problem with support networks, I can assure you. What do you think linux users do for each other already?
| i mean the average joe windows user is NOT going to want or know how to compile their own drivers to get something working.. people like windows on a user level because it is plug and play... |
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Though you could probably fit Windows under a very loose definition of "plug and play", it would be the very worst implementation I've ever seen of it. Use a Mac man. Just try it. Apple invented plug and play 15 years ago. Ever since then things just work. You know how many time I had to reboot an XP machine yesterday to get sound drivers for a SB Live card to work? 6. How is that plug and play?
| In fact I am working on a speech recognition application on windows right now using microsofts speech SDK that is freely distributed... can't complain about that all too much as I would not be able to write a speech recognition engine myself |
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Macs have had speech recognition (and synthesis) built into the OS for 10 years. Nice of MS to finally catch up.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2003, 12:50:02 PM »
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im not bashing either OS, but it seems like you guys are more anti microsoft than pro linux or mac
Im not opposed to another OS... hell I don't work for microsoft so I dont feel like I need to defend them in anyway.. they can do that for themselves if they feel the need.
Anyways we all have our opinions so I say we leave it at that... your not going to change my mind, and im not going to change yours, and there is no need for either to do so.. anyway lets get back to something more peaceful like shooting each other
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2003, 12:57:43 PM »
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You have a point. I can't hide my strong anti-MS sentiment, but it's one that I bet you'd find among a lot of linux and Mac users. You just start to see how wrong the things they do and the programs they code are after a while.
Nevertheless, I agree you should use what works for you. I myself use all three regularly, and I use whichever one will get my project done the fastest. 8 times out of 10 that's my Mac. But the point is that I use all three on a daily basis, and that gives me a pretty firm platform to make (decently) informed comments about each. It's just a shame that so many people (like the person who originally changed this thread from "welcome to the server" to "debate operating systems") feel the need to insult things that they haven't even taken the time to properly learn to hate (or love). It's the sheer level of ignorance that upsets Slight and I the most I think.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2003, 01:03:38 PM »
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my buddy is a musician and does lots of stuff with synths on the computer and wont use anything but a mac... some of the apps arent even available on the PC (even though someone elses program may do the same thing on a PC).. but he loves his mac and wouldnt use anything else for his music
I wouldn't go with a mac, but I would mess around on linux because I can do that on a box I already have versus having to buy a new piece of hardware when it comes to macs.. a friend here is actually supposed to bring me SUSE professional tomorrow.. its on 2 dvds so im gonna take that home and burn it.. maybe throw it on one of my older machines to mess around
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2003, 01:16:31 PM »
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It's just a shame that so many people (like the person who originally changed this thread from "welcome to the server" to "debate operating systems") feel the need to insult things that they haven't even taken the time to properly learn to hate (or love).
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just for the record (i had to look back to see if I was the one who first mentioned that macs blow  ) but it was really half a joke and half serious.. but the gripe was really just about the single button on the mouse... and no matter how good macs ever become... it will always drive me crazy
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2003, 02:51:58 PM »
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| You have a point. I can't hide my strong anti-MS sentiment, but it's one that I bet you'd find among a lot of linux and Mac users. You just start to see how wrong the things they do and the programs they code are after a while. |
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I don't know that I would say that M$ did it the wrong way, as much as they just have a different philosophy. They want to hide the underlying 'guts' of the OS as much as possible, forcing you into doing things through a GUI and forsaking the command line. Personally, I hate using a GUI, at least for most tasks. I FTP on the command line. I write HTML/Jscript/perl/C using VI (elVIs to be exact), which I access through the command line. I usually browse using links (text based browsing) which I access on the command line. I SSH and admin my home network along with a couple of web servers on the command line. Point and click to me just seems so cumbersome. I can type:
cp ~/myfile /usr/src && cd /usr/src && chmod 777 myfile
A hell of a lot faster than you can open an explorer window, drill down to the folder where a file is, ctrl-c, back up to another folder, drill down to where you want to copy it, ctrl-v, right click the file, go to properties, go to the security tab, click on permissions, and set to full control for all users.
Also, M$ seems to want to overcomplicate things. People love to throw a million Icons on their desktop, for programs that you can also access through the start menu, PLUS each program has its own folder in 'program files', PLUS you can drill down to the users directory and their desktop folder and find all of the same icons AGAIN. Can anyone say overkill? Want to know where my files are on my linux system? /home/slight. thats it. None of this c:\documents and settings\me\mydocuments\my pictures\blah (whats with the spaces in the file names anyway....) Guess where my programs are. /usr/bin. All of them. If I want a program, I don't need to find a shortcut or run through the start menu. I can just type the program name in a terminal. And I can pass arguments to those programs too. If I want to open up csr in my default browser I can type mozilla www.csreloaded.com and wham, mozilla opens up and loads CSR for me. This, to me atleast, seems much easier than double clicking a silly little icon, waiting for the default page to start loading, hitting stop, clicking in the address bar, and typing www.csreloaded.com. This is the philosophy that drew me to linux, a philosophy that began 30 years ago when AT&T bell labs first created Unix. The premise is this: Make it smart, make it simple, and make it work well with other programs. Example:
I am working on a bit of HTML in elVIs, and I need to check a link in another HTML document to see how it is written. I know the link begins with ../cgi_bin/scripts but I don't know the name of the script. So I ctrl+alt+F2, and type cat ./my.html | grep cgi_bin. I am returned with every line of text that contains cgi_bin, and I easily find what I need, ctrl+alt+F1 back to elVIs and keep working. The thing is, I am so familiar with the environment, I can do this without thinking. It is like playing an instrument; After a while, it just seems natural.
It's the sheer level of ignorance that upsets Slight and I the most I think.
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I think you hit the nail on the head.
slight
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| « Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 02:53:16 PM by slightcrazed » |
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2003, 02:56:35 PM »
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Okay, let me finish this debate, I can blow up and/or make any computer platform you have unstable, and I don't know how....computers suck whether they are mac, linux, unix, or windows. I can blow them all up, don't believe me, as Porter, Slight, and deuce....I think I've blew them all up.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2003, 02:58:05 PM »
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| It's just a shame that so many people (like the person who originally changed this thread from "welcome to the server" to "debate operating systems") feel the need to insult things that they haven't even taken the time to properly learn to hate (or love). It's the sheer level of ignorance that upsets Slight and I the most I think. |
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i applaud you porter..that was the best subtle insult towards me that i have ever seen
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2003, 02:59:14 PM »
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not to mention i thought i did a good enough job leaving this debate many posts ago..dont pull me back into it!
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2003, 03:07:50 PM »
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not to mention i thought i did a good enough job leaving this debate many posts ago..dont pull me back into it!
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i thought he was talking about me 
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2003, 05:38:30 PM »
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| but the gripe was really just about the single button on the mouse... and no matter how good macs ever become... it will always drive me crazy |
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Yeah, that's a design choice that has always bugged the hell out of me too-- which is why I use a Logitech MX300 with my Dual 1GHz G4 tower. And yes the right-click works (without any extra configuration), and yes the wheel works (without any extra configuration), and yes even the wheel click works (without any extra configuration). This support has been built in since OS 9.0 (almost 4 or 5 years now), but Apple still ships one button mice with it's products even the the OS is ready for more. Go figure.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2003, 12:55:12 PM »
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Point and click to me just seems so cumbersome. I can type:
cp ~/myfile /usr/src && cd /usr/src && chmod 777 myfile
. I know the link begins with ../cgi_bin/scripts but I don't know the name of the script. So I ctrl+alt+F2, and type cat ./my.html | grep cgi_bin. I am returned with every line of text that contains cgi_bin, and I easily find what I need, ctrl+alt+F1 back to elVIs and keep working.
slight
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the fast majority of the computer using population can't or doesn't want to have to type in cryptic command line prompts to do what they need to do though...
none the less, my IT guy here brought me in his SUSE 8 pro and staroffice, so I am going to load them on a dual boot with my windows server at home so I can mess around with it |
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Deuce
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2003, 01:22:48 PM »
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alright..i'm just going to post 1 more thing on this topic..because i know i'm not going to convince you guys of my point of view, as well as you know you arent going to convince me.
lets make up an example. we will call our example "Joe"
now joe isnt really computer smart. he couldnt tell you the specs of his computer, he couldnt tell you what the difference between windows 95 / 98, he couldnt even really tell you what an operating system is. All Joe wants to do is to have email, go on the internet, and maybe be able to play games. So Joe buys a computer with Windows. And it accomplishes what he wants.
Now please realize that Joe represents the majority of people who want computers to begin with.
Yes, i agree, linux is probably a better system for 'programmers'..for people who actually want to have control of everything in front of them. But the majority of the people do not want that, or care for it. They want the basics that will fit their needs. And windows does that.
i think you are understand the fact slight that windows is really not that confusing as you claim. windows XP is idiot proof. for the common "Joe" user, finding what you want is very easy (and your example of the time it takes to load up internet explorer is greatly false..i imagine it takes me less time to pull it up then it does for you to type it).
icons on the desktop of useless? icons on the desktop are shortcuts so you dont have to type in commands.
| thing is, I am so familiar with the environment, I can do this without thinking. It is like playing an instrument; After a while, it just seems natural. |
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the same goes with window users slight.
| It's the sheer level of ignorance that upsets Slight and I the most I think. |
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I think you hit the nail on the head. |
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everyone has their opinions. playstation over nintendo. honda over toyota. pepperoni pizza over bacon pizza. And my opinion is that for common user "joe", windows is superior then linux or macs. because it is easier to use, and easier to get help for the common "joe" user.
(btw, i based the example "joe" of a person i actually know..its not something i made up)
Deuce out.
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Father Ribs
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2003, 01:29:54 PM »
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We, or at least the majority of us, are also not taking into account that we really have NO IDEA what "joe average" is really like...having grown up with WFW 3.11, win95/98 and XP...or the MAC OSes, and basic and all the other junk.
It's like RTS computer games. There ain't a human in existance who can pick up Age of Mythology or WC3 as their first RTS and do well in it off the bat...most people started in the kinder-simpler games like WC2 or C&C and worked their way up. Some people couldn't even play Pitfall Harry, let alone state of the art games like we do. The same goes for OSes.
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2003, 01:35:09 PM »
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Its only cryptic if you don't know the commands (duh). The thing is, with Gnome or KDE (one of several desktop environments available with linux) I can perform the same task, just as I would on windows, through the GUI. The difference being, I have a choice.
If you are serious about giving linux a try, I applaud you. Even if you end up hating it, It would still please me to know that you gave it a shot. That is all I ask. A warning though:
You may think you know computers (I know I used to), but what you will come to realize eventually (as I did) is that you know computers from a windows perspective. If you do decide to try linux you will no doubt find yourself like a fish out of water. Nothing will (at first) make sense, and simple tasks like copying a file to a floppy will seem so alien that you wont know what to do with yourself. The file system will seem strange, and outside of surfing the web or using e-mail you will probably find yourself sitting there going 'great, now what the hell am I supposed to do'. Everybody who trys linux goes through this. Be patient. Give yourself time to learn the OS. You didn't learn windows in a day, what makes you think linux is any different. Find as much documentation as you can. Play around on the command line. Play around in the GUI. Check out www.linuxquestions.com and read their forums if you run into problems. Honestly, I think it took about a month of forcing myself to use Linux before I really became comfortable with it. It was only after I reached that 'comfortable' phase that I really started to see the beauty, and power, of the OS.
Now, maybe you don't have a month to spend with an OS. Thats fine. Just understand that I really think that you need that time frame before you can make an informed decision about it.
slight
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2003, 02:04:57 PM »
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alright..i'm just going to post 1 more thing on this topic..because i know i'm not going to convince you guys of my point of view, as well as you know you arent going to convince me.
lets make up an example. we will call our example "Joe"
now joe isnt really computer smart. he couldnt tell you the specs of his computer, he couldnt tell you what the difference between windows 95 / 98, he couldnt even really tell you what an operating system is. All Joe wants to do is to have email, go on the internet, and maybe be able to play games. So Joe buys a computer with Windows. And it accomplishes what he wants.
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Average Joe huh?
What would you say if I told you my parents run linux. I gave my dad the CD (RedHat 9.0) He did the install himself, and does everything the average Joe user would (surf, email, keep a photo album, listen to MP3s, play games (solitaire and minesweeper, stuff like that), and he has been happy as a clam. 'Average Joe' can have just as good an experience with Linux doing 'average joe' stuff as anyone else can.
Its just too bad that M$ has contracted with every tom, dick and harry computer maker so that the only OS that the Average Joe ever sees is some form of Windows.
Again, awww shucks.
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2003, 02:27:21 PM »
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| But the majority of the people do not want that, or care for it. They want the basics that will fit their needs. And windows does that. |
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The point is that linux will do this too (now) with only the same amount of initial effort and learning. Plus you get the choice to switch things around to your heart's content when you're ready for that.
| everyone has their opinions. playstation over nintendo. honda over toyota. pepperoni pizza over bacon pizza. And my opinion is that for common user "joe", windows is superior then linux or macs. because it is easier to use, and easier to get help for the common "joe" user. |
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The difference there is that mostly you're talking about informed choices. Ask average people if they prefer living in [insert your country name here] or Japan, and they will probably always tell you America. Why? Because hardly anybody you will be running into has any experience with living in [insert very far away palce here]. Experience that would allow them to give you an informed opinion. YOUR current opinion about Windows is based on an admitted TOTAL ignorance of the two other operating systems you're arguing against.
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[Wumpa] Porter
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Holy Grail
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2003, 02:37:14 PM »
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I agree with Porter... I lack all sorts of experience in both Linux and Mac OS, and therefore I like to stick with Windows, because its what I know. However, I know, with the little use of Mac OS that I have had, it is a very easy system to use. It is much simplier then Windows, and easier to use.
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #77 on: September 26, 2003, 02:50:10 PM »
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well supposedly this version I have comes with 1500 apps you can compile/install if you want 1500 friggin hundred... its on 2 dvds so it must be pretty big.. good thing narf gave me his 4x dvd burner for a little while
im gonna give it a shot.. dont know exactly what use i will have for it.. maybe ill just run an FTP or something.. or maybe a PHP server
but either way, im giving it a shot because i really dont mind trying new things.. i know I would never give up windows totally though
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #78 on: September 26, 2003, 03:09:00 PM »
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Not only that, but your statement that its easier to use windoze is only true BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT. If you stick a person with no knowledge of any computer infront of windows they will find it just as confusing/difficult to use as any other OS.
Put yourself in my shoes, or in Porter's shoes. How would you feel if I we had absolutely no knowledge of Windoze, but we started telling you how much better we thought Linux/Mac was even though we had no way to compare our experience to windoze. Wouldn't that seem a bit WRONG to you?
slight
*edit - forgot to quote, this is in reply to deuce*
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| « Last Edit: September 26, 2003, 03:12:11 PM by slightcrazed » |
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2003, 03:14:18 PM »
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well supposedly this version I have comes with 1500 apps you can compile/install if you want 1500 friggin hundred... its on 2 dvds so it must be pretty big.. good thing narf gave me his 4x dvd burner for a little while
im gonna give it a shot.. dont know exactly what use i will have for it.. maybe ill just run an FTP or something.. or maybe a PHP server
but either way, im giving it a shot because i really dont mind trying new things.. i know I would never give up windows totally though
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2 DVD's? WOW. I've never tried SuSE, but it sounds like they have tried to include every possible piece of GPL'd software that they possibly could.
good luck!:)
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Fotty
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2003, 06:41:43 AM »
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the whole package comes with 2 dvds and 5 cd roms.. i guess just in case you dont have a dvd drive
also staroffice as well
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2003, 07:17:54 AM »
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Greatest thread hijack in the history of the world?
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slightcrazed
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2003, 07:32:19 AM »
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Greatest thread hijack in the history of the world?
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Could be...
slight
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rich-hobo
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Re:Played your server yesterday
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2003, 07:49:25 AM »
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we tend to run off topic
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